KVR Audio

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:43 pm

rlared wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:42 pm
chk071 wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:39 pm In Cubase forums, people would point at anything else but Cubase, in Studio One forums, people would point at anything else but Studio One, and on Ableton forums, people would point at anything else but Ableton. That's how the internet works.

Now imagine you'd put all that in a mixing pot. You'd end up with a huge melange of everything, which tastes like crap, but makes you go to the toilet after a minute. Customers know so much better.
This is true. Though you can't "throw the baby out with the bathwater". There are some valid comments in there from professional users, no?

TBH, i couldn't tell. I'm anything but a power user, and didn't use most of the functionality other people here and elsewhere talk about. One thing is cut in stone though: Most people will never be satisfied.

That's not always a bad thing. Good thing arise from being discontent with something. Someone who is content with everything will never improve anything.

andypryce · Post by **andypryce** » Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:57 pm

One thing Studio one is doing dangerous is, it is trying to be Protools, Live, Cubase, FLS. They do not have a certain customer profile. I hope they won't add clip launching where you can not convince anyone to use anything but Live or maybe Bitwig for live stuff. Or try to add more plugins or content where there are better 3rd party options. They should just keep on creating the best workflow. And IMHO they really need a GUI overhaul. It was great at start but with all the added functionality the interface started to get bloated.

rlared · Post by **rlared** » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:06 pm

andypryce wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:57 pm One thing Studio one is doing dangerous is, it is trying to be Protools, Live, Cubase, FLS. They do not have a certain customer profile. I hope they won't add clip launching where you can not convince anyone to use anything but Live or maybe Bitwig for live stuff. Or try to add more plugins or content where there are better 3rd party options. They should just keep on creating the best workflow. And IMHO they really need a GUI overhaul. It was great at start but with all the added functionality the interface started to get bloated.

That's true but they're still a relatively young DAW. Also, I guess the market is changing quickly each year. I think they actually nailed it with Version 4 with adding the step sequencer, Sampler XT, drum view, pattern mode, etc. The thing is, they are good at implementing features in a way that they are well integrated, but aren't "in the way". So if you don't want to use the new V4 features, then you can just pretend they don't exist and they won't get in your way.

Also the GUI must be a love-hate thing. I think it's OK, but it could use more contrast. But I thought Cubase's GUI was way more cluttered actually. Little buttons and tools everywhere, tons of menus to dive through.

rlared · Post by **rlared** » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:11 pm

By the way, I'll give you an example of a huge workflow difference. . . creating a split or layered VST instrument.

In Cubase, you have to use the MIDI Transformer on multiple tracks, which honestly has to be one of the most confusing, non-intuitive, and clunky tools I've ever seen.

Compare that to Studio One. There's a visual GUI to create multi-instruments which is extremely intuitive, quick, and easy.

andypryce · Post by **andypryce** » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:18 pm

rlared wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:06 pm
andypryce wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:57 pm One thing Studio one is doing dangerous is, it is trying to be Protools, Live, Cubase, FLS. They do not have a certain customer profile. I hope they won't add clip launching where you can not convince anyone to use anything but Live or maybe Bitwig for live stuff. Or try to add more plugins or content where there are better 3rd party options. They should just keep on creating the best workflow. And IMHO they really need a GUI overhaul. It was great at start but with all the added functionality the interface started to get bloated.
That's true but they're still a relatively young DAW. Also, I guess the market is changing quickly each year. I think they actually nailed it with Version 4 with adding the step sequencer, Sampler XT, drum view, pattern mode, etc. The thing is, they are good at implementing features in a way that they are well integrated, but aren't "in the way". So if you don't want to use the new V4 features, then you can just pretend they don't exist and they won't get in your way.

Also the GUI must be a love-hate thing. I think it's OK, but it could use more contrast. But I thought Cubase's GUI was way more cluttered actually. Little buttons and tools everywhere, tons of menus to dive through.

Agreed. As you said it needs more contrast and maybe better waveform view and some clean up. Cubase is so cluttered. Much better in V10 though.

andypryce · Post by **andypryce** » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:23 pm

chk071 wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:42 pm Just out of interest: What do people who use both Cubase and S1 miss the most in S1 compared to Cubase?

I do not use VR, Note expressions, Video,MPE or Score. So the only thing is missing for me is more midi functions like logical editor better external instrument integration and more advanced piano roll. For me the rest is much better in Studio One.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:26 pm

I always wondered what the logical editor is (it isn't available in Cubase Artist or Elements, which i used). Guess i'll have to read up on it.

Agree about S1's interface, BTW. It isn't as pretty as Cubase's, but, it's functional and works fine. And, i also agree about the clutter, especially the inspector view in Cubase is way cluttered.

bill45 · Post by **bill45** » Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:19 pm

I am testing the Trial version of cubase 10.
I can see it a little better. I am legaly blind.
In 9.5. I some time have to squint, even with a magnifying glass.

jclosed · Post by **jclosed** » Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:34 am

As long as S1 does not have something similar to the command room I do not even consider S1 being a viable alternative. There is also lots of MIDI stuff that's simply missing in S1. It's not that I dislike S1 or something, but it's simply missing too much stuff that I use on a daily base. Of course Cubase is not almighty or something. That's the reason I use the Bitwig/Cubase combination. Those two DAW's cover about everything I need.

Anyway - for me the upgrade to Cubase 10 was worth it. The improvements in VariAudio, Improved side-chaining, Improved channel strip, upcoming ARA support, audio alignment (to name a few) are enough to made it the money worth. But that is, of course, a personal view.

3ptguitarist · Post by **3ptguitarist** » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:16 am

jclosed wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:34 am As long as S1 does not have something similar to the command room I do not even consider S1 being a viable alternative. There is also lots of MIDI stuff that's simply missing in S1. It's not that I dislike S1 or something, but it's simply missing too much stuff that I use on a daily base. Of course Cubase is not almighty or something. That's the reason I use the Bitwig/Cubase combination. Those two DAW's cover about everything I need.

Anyway - for me the upgrade to Cubase 10 was worth it. The improvements in VariAudio, Improved side-chaining, Improved channel strip, upcoming ARA support, audio alignment (to name a few) are enough to made it the money worth. But that is, of course, a personal view.

What midi stuff is missing other than external midi patch support and mpe?

Spin Boyz · Post by **Spin Boyz** » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:52 am

I’m still on Cubase 7, but I mostly use S1 v4.

Missing midi stuff in S1:
Note Expression
Expression Maps
Chord Pads (playable)

Orbit-50 · Post by **Orbit-50** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:55 am

chk071 wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:26 pm I always wondered what the logical editor is...

Basically it does stuff for you.

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:11 am

chk071 wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:26 pm I always wondered what the logical editor is (it isn't available in Cubase Artist or Elements, which i used). Guess i'll have to read up on it.

Agree about S1's interface, BTW. It isn't as pretty as Cubase's, but, it's functional and works fine. And, i also agree about the clutter, especially the inspector view in Cubase is way cluttered.

It should be called midi logical editor, and a tools to alter midi stuff on the fly. It is also doubled with a plugin Transformer that can do that in realtime on a track.

But it is lacking so much compared to scripting language. You can just put that money into Bluecataudio Plug'n Script and you have way better tool, also running in realtime. But learning to program is a little uphill battle until getting it, but good investment.

At least Cubase Inspector has collapsible sections which is a long time feature request in StudioOne. Really difficult for eyes in StudioOne to distinguish sections fast enough, I just find my eyes wondering about.

But prefer StudioOne in so many other ways that I am just about to uninstall Cubase Pro 9.5 and Syncrosoft software and never look back.

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:24 am

jclosed wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:34 am As long as S1 does not have something similar to the command room I do not even consider S1 being a viable alternative. There is also lots of MIDI stuff that's simply missing in S1. It's not that I dislike S1 or something, but it's simply missing too much stuff that I use on a daily base. Of course Cubase is not almighty or something. That's the reason I use the Bitwig/Cubase combination. Those two DAW's cover about everything I need.

I missed control room too as a start. I used Listen feature on a track to dim background when recording new - monitoring through control room.

But found a tip Craig Anderton did for StudioOne.
a) create a sub audio channel out beside the usuall mains out in config audio
b) assign track(s) you want to record to that sub.
c) use main out fader to dim the rest of the mix as needed
d) record and then return assign to where it usually goes

Works just as well, if this is the feature you are missing - or anybody missed doing this in StudioOne.

I found the ability to match tempo track to free recorded midi or audio way superior in StudioOne. I used some Time Warp thingy in Cubase and cumbersome in comparison.

To me also working with automation is much smoother in StudioOne, any handling of nodes as in tempo track as well is better. I always felt the need for the automation pallette up in gui to get by in Cubase.

And as using cpu in StudioOne is a fraction for the same project compared to Cubase helps too. Especially using video you don't even know it's there in StudioOne(2-3%), but that project in Cubase took 36% cpu with the new video engine.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:13 pm

lfm wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:24 am I used some Time Warp thingy in Cubase and cumbersome in comparison.

This needs balance for the reader. I have no idea what's cumbersome about it, since I use it constantly with great ease, nor did you say anything why.

You showed me before your strange mistaken notions about how time works in the other Tempo Track matter (and in thinking things go awry when you stray from divisions of the number 24 because MIDI resolution is founded in it) so your "cumbersome" may be another PEBKAC matter. "some Time Warp thingy" isn't going to form great confidence in your degree of experience anyway.