Music Theory vs Chord VST

[jancivil]

i was answering the other guy

I realize that and wasn't even addressing you particularly.
they said they molested a piano anyway so...

[jancivil]

teh robots can f**k right off

[vurt]

[killahpl]

That said, am I gonna just not touch any instrument or any workstation/music generator, etc. until I've learned "all" of the theory? Absolutely not. I learn by doing. I just put my hands on the piano until I've found something that seems interesting AND I fully accept that all the music I've made/tried to has a lot of happenstance (as opposed to premeditation) in it. But I will arrive at that point some day.

id say theres a huge difference between "i don't need to learn subject a because i have tool b"
and "while ill learning subject a ill use tool b to get me there and maybe it will also teach me something along the way"

the tool isn't the issue, its the users goals.
not something id use personally, but if people want to, not my call.

There absolutely is a huge differencee.

And, to be quite honest, I think it's a delusion to think: "I don't need to learn subject a because I have tool b" - at least with regard to what we're talking about here, because even if you decide that you're going to limit your knowledge of "music theory" to, say, drawing notes in FL Studio's piano roll, sooner or later you're going to have to tackle some musical concepts. Going forward, you can do one of two things:

1. Learn these concepts i.e. delve deeper into music theory.

2. Pretend that you don't have to understand these concepts and then ask questions such as "is tempo irrelevant?" (in which case, what you're really asking is, "why is it so that when I make the notes in my piano roll shorter but increase the BPM I get more or less the same result as when I make the notes longer but dial the BMP down?" without really realizing you're doing so")?

[jancivil]

There is a danger however in taking music theory 'book larnin' as more of an answer than your ear and real experience with an instrument.

If you really figure out what a music is by your ear and in your body you're building knowledge deeply. If you come to a realization 'here this works consistently' in obtaining a certain effect on you you're doing music theory. If you've learned the typical I to vi produces this sort of mood for you, in more than one genre, in and of itself, that's doing music theory. So some of us find that in a book, fine, ok but the book, or someone's notion of the book may create an impression there is this narrow path available like here are rules which apply to everything.

NB., per your 2): if you're involved with music as a player, you know the relevance of tempo. We won't find this end-around of reality (which as a start takes more involvement than drawing in a graphical editor) in the abstract.

[drdriller]

why they should be opposite ?

i learned music theory from chords plugins... the only chords i knew before using them was the basic triad.

[Stamped Records]

Im just getting into learning music theory but I have a delema. I have come across a ton of VSTs that produce chords for you and I have a question. When applications like these become more popular what will this mean for those that want to learn/use music theory the old fashion way? Should I spend double or even tripple the time sitting learning music theory or should i resort to these chord generators and learn music theory by generating the chords that sound nice to me? I kind of feel like thats cheating

It most certainly is cheating. There is no substitute for the artistic value that can be represented by genuine understanding.

For example, it took me 10 years of study and thought to figure out music to the point that I can write a decent chord progression (which includes the melody, bass, inner voices). I had to go through a lot of theory and test a lot of things to find what I actually like. My worry (apart from it clearly not being anything like creativity) is that everything will sound nice, and there will be no reason to go further to find something that will sound NICER, as is the normal progressive path for an artist in any field.

Then there's the whole issue of whether you know how to use the chords or not, which is unlikely if you need the chord thingy in the first place. Rearranging chords might seem creative and even sound nice, but you'll likely be stripping it of what it is that 'works' about it in the first place.

Also, there's the question of root movement, I've never actually went to check these things out because my stomach can't handle the vulgarity, but, how does root movement work? I assume it uses the circle of 5ths to force whatever you give it to adhere to cyclic root movement - of course, if you use one, you'll have no idea what that means.

[Stamped Records]

why they should be opposite ?

i learned music theory from chords plugins... the only chords i knew before using them was the basic triad.

I sincerely doubt that, but can you communicate with other musicians, can you search for information and actually digest the musical linguistics such as dominant, substitute, borrowed chords, modulation etc. not to mention the all important roman numerals, and the totality of information that such a small collection of symbols is describing? I think not.

[jancivil]

"root movement" is just a basic term. EG: your voicing of V7 to I does F to E in the bass, ie., V4/2 to I6. The root movement nonetheless is V - I.

[drdriller]

why they should be opposite ?

i learned music theory from chords plugins... the only chords i knew before using them was the basic triad.

I sincerely doubt that, but can you communicate with other musicians, can you search for information and actually digest the musical linguistics such as dominant, substitute, borrowed chords, modulation etc. not to mention the all important roman numerals, and the totality of information that such a small collection of symbols is describing? I think not.

mmm do i care ? i produce dubstep, dnb and trap.. the last time i talk to a musician i was 8 years old..

[jancivil]

should i resort to these chord generators and learn music theory by generating the chords that sound nice to me?

Here's where actual information from a course of 'music theory' comes in.
1) Are you going to understand the movement generated for you though? If you do, you don't need the crutch.
SR stated in another thread there is a difference between selection and decision. Decisive action here is knowing what you're after. You're just selecting from a menu and trying the selection out.

2) How are the chords connected? While it is true of, eg., guitar-based rock music practice in general we're going to have root position most if not all of the time and parallels, music can be more cohesively put together, ie., you practice voice-leading and connect things linearly in parts. The likelihood the chord generator can do this for you and do it well doesn't seem high.
If it can, you're still letting an algorithm run by a machine replace your own agency in the matter.

Why would anyone want this? Because you're just that lazy? Why are you in music, then? What's the point.
NB: the universal 'you' here.

[jancivil]

why they should be opposite ?

i learned music theory from chords plugins... the only chords i knew before using them was the basic triad.

I sincerely doubt that, but can you communicate with other musicians, can you search for information and actually digest the musical linguistics such as dominant, substitute, borrowed chords, modulation etc. not to mention the all important roman numerals, and the totality of information that such a small collection of symbols is describing? I think not.

mmm do i care ? i produce dubstep, dnb and trap.. the last time i talk to a musician i was 8 years old..

It's essentially a rhetorical question. At any rate: in the abstract, why would one not want to know their shit to the extent they can convey it to another in some quality? If you can't, one way or another, you probably don't really fully have the concepts.

So your interest in music is rather limited; why are you posting here where the whole idea of the sub-forum is interest?
In favor of learning music theory using chord generators? Sheesh.
I tend to doubt you know very much, actually. I mean you failed to recognize that 'can you communicate with other musicians' is abstract, and questions how much one really does grasp, ie., that to really have it you *can* communicate it.
Also, how insular is that, you never talk to musicians. What are you, a :computer musician:, having no input, no communication, isolated and full of yourself only.

[drdriller]

I tend to doubt you know very much, actually.

??? i don't know anything, i mention that before using chord plugins i just known about the standard triad chord...

why are you posting here where the whole idea of the sub-forum is interest?
In favor of learning music theory using chord generators?

the tiny knowledge i learned in music theory come from chord generators, sorry for posting my unrelevant experience.

[puxii]

Scaler vst is also a good option

[funky lime]

words