Accidental Plagiarising?

Chords, scales, harmony, melody, etc.
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KVRist
413 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada

Post Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:35 pm

jancivil wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:20 pm
Ou_Tis wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:45 pm
For example, a musical about slavery in Montreal was shut down for appropriating 19th century African-American slave songs and having most of the slaves be played by white performers
Way to move the goalpost :clap:

You seem to have some kind of agenda even it's just a righteous look on social media. It's obvious you want to amplify something most of us won't experience because maybe we steer clear of such dipshittery.

^^ Just pay him no mind. He/she still lives in 1989.
Just a keep on a goin' a forward, without a single ounce of fear

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jancivil
KVRAF
17918 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Accidental Plagiarising?

Post Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:46 pm

"Noelia Cortés, takes issue with what she sees as Rosalía being the only palatable (read: white) version of flamenco"
That whole focus is just wrong-headed. And not actually very interesting. I don't know what that's supposed to do, it's the opposite of elevating awareness.
Some people just seem to want to distract and waste everybody's time and bring shit down to their level.


a John McLaughlin composition

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn_1O3J56E8

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donkey tugger
Boss Lovin' DR
5494 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from the grimness of yorkshire

Re: Accidental Plagiarising?

Post Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:00 pm

Ou_Tis wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:16 pm


Reggae used to be very popular
I quite like some Reggae myself. Not particularly coming through the floor at 4am like now though.. :x

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KVRist
234 posts since 20 Sep, 2018 from UK

Re: Accidental Plagiarising?

Post Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:21 pm

It shouldn't be a problem. If it sounds familiar to you, harmonise it creatively, or develop it further than the basic motif, push it forward in some way, extend it, be creative in production and it will likely not be recognised anyway.

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StudioDave
KVRian
1006 posts since 23 Jun, 2007 from Findlay OH USA

Re: Accidental Plagiarising?

Post Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:43 pm

This topic is particularly relevant to me at the moment. I wrote a song (Fair Enough), I put it in the Cafe here, but then the next day I heard a Bob Dylan song that was nearly identical to my melody. So I pulled my tune because I didn't want the comparison. Later I realized that Dylan's song was recognizably related to an earlier Tom Paxton tune, so I reposted my tune. I don't really know where I stand wrt to plagiarizing - I never heard the Dylan song until after I'd written mine, but I do know the Paxton tune, so where does that leave me in the legal arena ?

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KVRist
413 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada

Re: Accidental Plagiarising?

Post Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:30 pm

StudioDave wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:43 pm
This topic is particularly relevant to me at the moment. I wrote a song (Fair Enough), I put it in the Cafe here, but then the next day I heard a Bob Dylan song that was nearly identical to my melody. So I pulled my tune because I didn't want the comparison. Later I realized that Dylan's song was recognizably related to an earlier Tom Paxton tune, so I reposted my tune. I don't really know where I stand wrt to plagiarizing - I never heard the Dylan song until after I'd written mine, but I do know the Paxton tune, so where does that leave me in the legal arena ?
well, Bob Dylan is hard one to beat. He only uses three chords and one key.

(Just kidding, i am actually a huge Dylan fan!.)
Just a keep on a goin' a forward, without a single ounce of fear

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Ou_Tis
KVRist
270 posts since 10 Jul, 2018

Re: Accidental Plagiarising?

Post Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:16 pm

StudioDave wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:43 pm
This topic is particularly relevant to me at the moment. I wrote a song (Fair Enough), I put it in the Cafe here, but then the next day I heard a Bob Dylan song that was nearly identical to my melody. So I pulled my tune because I didn't want the comparison. Later I realized that Dylan's song was recognizably related to an earlier Tom Paxton tune, so I reposted my tune. I don't really know where I stand wrt to plagiarizing - I never heard the Dylan song until after I'd written mine, but I do know the Paxton tune, so where does that leave me in the legal arena ?
In the case of Bob Dylan and Tom Paxton it's very likely extremely similar to public domain folk melodies (as different from them as your melody is from Dylan or Paxton's). You can do a database search for the melody and variants; a few databases were mentioned in this thread.

If Dylan didn't buy the rights and didn't get sued, and your melody isn't more similar to Paxton's than Dylan's is, you shouldn't worry about it. Just don't claim it's the most original melody ever.

While there are no firm legal rules, a significant difference every four or five notes with different lyrics should almost always definitely be enough, so long as there isn't some wildly original larger structure you're copying or the notes aren't some extraordinarily unusual experimental pattern. If rhythm and other elements are different seven should be fine.

It is concerning that automated copyright enforcement could eventually be extended to recognizing melodies....

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KVRist
234 posts since 20 Sep, 2018 from UK

Re: Accidental Plagiarising?

Post Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:51 am

Maybe if you stick to a single genre this is more of a problem. If the genre is invisible I see no reason why any two songs can be the same. But then again, there's only so much you can do if you are composing for a single instrument. Folk music, like Dylan, should probably be disregarded in terms of musical copyright, because, although the music is a contribution to the mood, it's not the definiing characteristic of the genre, as Dylan's prize for literature will attest.

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KVRist
413 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada

Re: Accidental Plagiarising?

Post Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:02 am

Stamped Records wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:51 am
Maybe if you stick to a single genre this is more of a problem. If the genre is invisible I see no reason why any two songs can be the same. But then again, there's only so much you can do if you are composing for a single instrument. Folk music, like Dylan, should probably be disregarded in terms of musical copyright, because, although the music is a contribution to the mood, it's not the definiing characteristic of the genre, as Dylan's prize for literature will attest.
Yeah. Bob's has been around a very (VERY!) long time. He used to be a folk artist but I think we can safely say he's a rock artist (been since at least the 70s) and very far removed from the likes of Pete Seeger or Nancy Griffith. He made a few actually very good records in 90s where he returned to this folk roots ("As Good as I Been To You" and "World Gone Wrong") but his catalog is mostly rock music. I was just kidding about the 3 chords. It's taken from an interview he did in Rolling Stone where he claimed all you need to know is three chords to play every single song in the show -- the songs and arrangement on his records vary greatly and use a lot of different stuff.

Love and Theft was a great record. Amazing writer. Thats the problem with modern artists .. they aren't rooted in beatnick poetry like Dylan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDHXJZC-i04
Just a keep on a goin' a forward, without a single ounce of fear

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KVRist
234 posts since 20 Sep, 2018 from UK

Re: Accidental Plagiarising?

Post Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:34 am

Well, he his hands down the best interpreter of rhythm I've ever heard, no matter how simple the music might appear. Well, actually, it's a toss up between Dylan, Eminem and Aphex Twin, of the western music that I've heard, that is. I'd need to understand what they are all doing in order to judge them, but I don't, so I can't.

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KVRist
413 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada

Re: Accidental Plagiarising?

Post Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:10 am

Stamped Records wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:34 am
Well, he his hands down the best interpreter of rhythm I've ever heard, no matter how simple the music might appear. Well, actually, it's a toss up between Dylan, Eminem and Aphex Twin, of the western music that I've heard, that is. I'd need to understand what they are all doing in order to judge them, but I don't, so I can't.
Aphex Twin is great. Is that the type of electro you trying to make?
Just a keep on a goin' a forward, without a single ounce of fear

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killahpl
KVRer
18 posts since 14 Feb, 2019

Re: Accidental Plagiarising?

Post Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:36 am

StudioDave wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:43 pm
I never heard the Dylan song until after I'd written mine, but I do know the Paxton tune, so where does that leave me in the legal arena ?
Getting spit-roasted by both, I imagine.

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donkey tugger
Boss Lovin' DR
5494 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from the grimness of yorkshire

Re: Accidental Plagiarising?

Post Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:50 pm

I've been idly singing nonsense along with some shoegazer type thing I've written, to get vocal ideas and came up with something and thought, "hmm, that works nicely, but it's quite familiar - some soft rokk/MOR song...?". At first I thought it might be Foreigner, but I've realised it reminded me of, 'In The Air Tonight', by the lad Phil Collins. Still, it's about time tory wankers gave something back.. :hihi:

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