What are your thoughts on Symbolic Sounds Kyma 7 in 2019?

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I have an Organelle. It’s fine as an ever-expanding box of simple toys. The reality, however, is that pd hasn’t kept pace with MaxMSP, and isn’t a whole lot of fun to develop for. Also, the interface of the Organelle is underspecified, in that it desperately needs a few extra buttons, knobs, and LEDs. The lack of those results in all manner of convoluted, unintuitive interfaces.

Kyma, of course, doesn’t have any physical interface of its own, and the software isn’t exactly state of the art in terms of UI/UX. Honestly, the only reason I continue to consider one is that I bought a Continuum, and that has such a tight integration with Kyma. There still isn’t anything else off the shelf which offers the same morphing capability under expressive control. Is that worth the price? Maybe and maybe not.
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.

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whyterabbyt wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:07 pm As I say, though, ideally Im waiting for a good graphical frontend for building CSound instruments; CSound has the breadth that I think an 'alt-Kyma' would need. All eyes on whether Cabbage Studio goes lower level...
Last time I looked at Csound all was non-realtime. Even Supercollider could not get me back to lines of code programming. There was a Max external that could run Csound code though, I bet it was also available for Pd...

Supercollider is a smalltalk dialect as the Kyma language as well btw...

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Tj Shredder wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:30 pm Last time I looked at Csound all was non-realtime. Even Supercollider could not get me back to lines of code programming. There was a Max external that could run Csound code though, I bet it was also available for Pd...
That must have been a very loooong time ago then. I dont believe there was anything intrinsic which prevented realtime usage for most opcodes though, just CPU limitations; there were specific realtime opcodes coming in around Csound5, what, 15?, or more years ago. Realtime was becoming the most prevalant form at least a decade ago, including use of openGL opcodes for UIs and interactions. Before the MAX external there were Michael Gogin's VST versions.

V6 seems to have been the turning point for redesigning CSound as a 'proper' potential audio 'engine', rather than a standalone hacked into one. Plus open sourced properly. Rory Walsh has done some wonderful stuff on building ways to embed it, as VSTs, in game engines, all sorts of things, but he was doing LADSPA plugins in 2007.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand

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deastman wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:42 pm
Kyma, of course, doesn’t have any physical interface of its own, and the software isn’t exactly state of the art in terms of UI/UX. Honestly, the only reason I continue to consider one is that I bought a Continuum, and that has such a tight integration with Kyma. There still isn’t anything else off the shelf which offers the same morphing capability under expressive control. Is that worth the price? Maybe and maybe not.
Yes good point that you bring up here man. Indeed, Continuum combined with Kyma, especially with the morphing, is such a crazy expression instrument. Check out Amon Tobin's ISAM album, pretty much all composed with Kyma and 'controlled' with a Continuum surface. Some making-of videos of the album on Youtube also show how he did work with both. Nuts!

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Tj Shredder wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:57 pm But the more unique part of the Kyma system was the interactive sequencer. I do not know of anything comparable... I always wished I would have something like that within Max, but Cycling went the Max4Live route instead. The Kyma sequencer is a completely different mind set...
What exactly does that sequencer do that isn't available anywhere else? That is also sometimes mentioned besides the spectral/morphing stuff, but it's still not clear to me what it does. It's not possible to even read about that easily from the manual because you can't get even the Kyma manual for free, it needs to be paid for if you want to read it. (Granted, they will deduct the manual's price from the Kyma system if you later decide to buy it... :hihi: )

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Xenakios wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:29 pm
Tj Shredder wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:57 pm But the more unique part of the Kyma system was the interactive sequencer. I do not know of anything comparable... I always wished I would have something like that within Max, but Cycling went the Max4Live route instead. The Kyma sequencer is a completely different mind set...
What exactly does that sequencer do that isn't available anywhere else? That is also sometimes mentioned besides the spectral/morphing stuff, but it's still not clear to me what it does. It's not possible to even read about that easily from the manual because you can't get even the Kyma manual for free, it needs to be paid for if you want to read it. (Granted, they will deduct the manual's price from the Kyma system if you later decide to buy it... :hihi: )
The timeline defines when different algorithms will take place at points in time, along with automation curves to control parameters in those algorithms. It is more of a generalized event sequencer, rather than a traditional MIDI note sequencer.
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.

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And you could play a loop and only go on triggered by events, or jump back/forward triggered by events. It was not just a time line, more a time warp...

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Happy to find this thread, I have been thinking about the future of kyma. What surprises me is that in all these years of kyma being around no real contender has come in. Of course, there is the SonicCore xite-1 but it is not the same idea of coding platform in hardware, more like a "nord G2" kind of interaction if I understood correctly. Why there is not a dedicated sound computer with integrated professional converters? like and embedded professional sound card and a clean operating system "robust and fast" for audio free of unnecessary apps? or am I missing it? percussa SSP? but it doesn't have balanced outputs... with XLR connectors as in the capybara, that was genius except that people reports seems to indicate that it was not so portable, so not suited for stage turning. If I go in a gig thunderbolt connections make me very stress: the thing looks like if I blow it or a bad move and the thing will go bananas, unpluging and all sort of problems.
Well AKAI-force seems to get closer but the OS should be hacked to allow software mentioned up in this thread. Did somebody found out what is the processor on it?
Am I missing something? where are the sound computers of 2019?

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To be completely and utterly honest, I'm personally completely overwhelmed with what you can do with VSTis these days. Nothing can make me want more than I have, especially not when it costs that much. People are obsessing with unobtanium, instead of making great music. Owning Kyma will not make you a great musician. You will still just be an average musician who paid through his nose to have Kyma. It's the same with all synths. If you're a really good musician, you will be able to make great music even with freeware. :tu:

So yes, I'm not obsessing with it. It must be a really cool system. But it's just a tool amongst other 25156, including hardware ones. Spectral morphing? I don't care... People won't care, too, if your music is shitty.
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. - Jiddu Krishnamurti

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We all do 'the music' for different reasons. Some want to perform like their idols and make it big, some have an indefinable 'need' to do it, it gives a sense of control and peace to others after a hard days work.. the list goes on.

For me, I hear an interesting technique/sound and I want to understand the technology which made it, inside out. A slightly autistic curiosity, dare I say. If I can, I'll get it and play with it, push it, break it.. have fun with it! That's making music, to me; a technician operating their equipment in a personally developed technique, which just happens to result in them making sounds which feel like their emotions.

It might not make your music any better DuX, or it might! but I know when I eventually get one I'll be able to make some of the sounds I've heard in my head which I have so far not been able to reproduce in the real world to my satisfaction. That is why I will forever have it fairly near the top of my GAS list, and will purchase and probably spend a year offline digging into the few things I _really_ want from it. And then I can die happy (ish).

Just saying words.

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Could it be that the pacarana will see a hardware update soon? it is 10 years old...
What about this one:
https://www.mindmusiclabs.com/developme ... -overview/ (https://www.mindmusiclabs.com/development-board-overview/)
looks promising even as a such earlier stage.

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None of them has DSPs all pretty lame general purpose CPUs...

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That's true. But maybe not necessarily a sign of inferiority, isn't it?

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CinningBao wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:48 pm We all do 'the music' for different reasons. Some want to perform like their idols and make it big, some have an indefinable 'need' to do it, it gives a sense of control and peace to others after a hard days work.. the list goes on.

For me, I hear an interesting technique/sound and I want to understand the technology which made it, inside out. A slightly autistic curiosity, dare I say. If I can, I'll get it and play with it, push it, break it.. have fun with it! That's making music, to me; a technician operating their equipment in a personally developed technique, which just happens to result in them making sounds which feel like their emotions.

It might not make your music any better DuX, or it might! but I know when I eventually get one I'll be able to make some of the sounds I've heard in my head which I have so far not been able to reproduce in the real world to my satisfaction. That is why I will forever have it fairly near the top of my GAS list, and will purchase and probably spend a year offline digging into the few things I _really_ want from it. And then I can die happy (ish).

Just saying words.
I agree, CinningBao. I really do. We're trying to find something new, and people should not stop exploring! These things make it worth your while. Can inspire you, and you might come out with a really great piece. Maybe 90% of the sounds could be more or less what we've heard so many times before, but the one or two that you've made yourself could be the driving force for the whole song/track. :tu:

Thanks!
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. - Jiddu Krishnamurti

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Tj Shredder wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:12 pm None of them has DSPs all pretty lame general purpose CPUs...
So you think computing the same DSP algorythms on a CPU or some custom DSP can be different? Very interesting. :roll:

Has it ever occurred to you that it might just be the quality of code/coding? :wink:
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. - Jiddu Krishnamurti

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