KVR Audio

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:34 pm

Okay. Think about this: Have you ever heard the sound of Elektron Analog 4 or just their FM engine Digitone? Well, you do not need to have preference for this sound to know that a softie coming anyway near them is a no-go. Ain’t gonna happen. Then take a Synth like Deepmind 6, when you turn off its effects and just put that DCO sound forward. Do any software come near it? Yes, imo, TAL does. But does it reach the final destination: No. It does not end there. Simple as that and all we have to do is to accept this as a fact and we can all be happy. Software is convenient (when you are lazy) and hardware just sounds better (when you want to be creative and make music).

stratum · Post by **stratum** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:36 pm

FM generates a lot of overtones and software implementations will alias, but you should probably ask this question in the DSP forum for a better answer.

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:38 pm

Ask what? I am the one giving answers here. If the FM guys want to learn from it, they can come over here.

stratum · Post by **stratum** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:40 pm

IncarnateX wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:38 pm Ask what? I am the one giving answers here. If the FM guys want to learn from it, they can come over here.

FM is a known problematic case as far as I can see and the problem will not happen with a usual subtractive synth.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:42 pm

IncarnateX wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:34 pm Okay. Think about this: Have you ever heard the sound of Elektron Analog 4 or just their FM engine Digitone? Well, you do not need to have preference for this sound to know that a softie coming anyway near them is a no-go. Ain’t gonna happen. Then take a Synth like Deepmind 6, when you turn off its effects and just put that DCO sound forward. Do any software come near it? Yes, imo, TAL does. But does it reach the final destination: No. It does not end there. Simple as that and all we have to do is to accept this as a fact and we can all be happy. Software is convenient (when you are lazy) and hardware just sounds better (when you want to be creative and make music).

is it not possible that we will soon have an entire generation of users that have never experienced a hardware synth, only know a software synth and will base their opinion on a different foundation?

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:59 pm

Hink wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:42 pm is it not possible that we will soon have an entire generation of users that have never experienced a hardware synth, only know a software synth and will base their opinion on a different foundation?

So now you are trying to get me off my quest by heart attack? Nice.

As if the nightmare of modern produzahs was not enough already. one day they will even forget a synthesizer once was something outside a computerscreen. God have merci on us all and the art of music in particular.

But your post has inspired me to write a long rant about just that. I will return later. Thanks.

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:01 am

stratum wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:40 pm
IncarnateX wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:38 pm Ask what? I am the one giving answers here. If the FM guys want to learn from it, they can come over here.
FM is a known problematic case as far as I can see and the problem will not happen with a usual subtractive synth.

What I said was that a softie sounding anywhere near Digitone is a no-go. That the software implementation of FM is problematic supports that. But I think it holds for Analog 4 as well. You may get approximations with software but just that. It never gets there.

FapFilter · Post by **FapFilter** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:05 am

I'm somehow getting the feeling someone just recently gotten his hands on outboard gear first time and now going a little overboard with his/her feelings.
Both mentioned synths are great instruments of course, but not because of otherwise unobtainable sounds

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:11 am

Yes, got me there. Very recently since 1984. Feels like yesterday.

stratum · Post by **stratum** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:11 am

IncarnateX wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:01 am
stratum wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:40 pm
IncarnateX wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:38 pm Ask what? I am the one giving answers here. If the FM guys want to learn from it, they can come over here.
FM is a known problematic case as far as I can see and the problem will not happen with a usual subtractive synth.
What I said was that a softie sounding anywhere near Digitone is a no-go. That the software implementation of FM is problematic supports that. But I think it holds for Analog 4 as well. You may get approximations with software but just that. It never gets there.

Oddly isn't that digital(=software) also?

pekbro · Post by **pekbro** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:14 am

Eventually tech like quantum computing, which is particularly suited to dealing with the problem of unpredictable systems, will become prevalent. This may go along way towards leveling the playing field. It will be some time before things become practical however.

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:20 am

stratum wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:11 am Oddly isn't that digital(=software) also?

Did you not read the man’s claim that FM is problematic to implement as dsp? This is not a semantic question about what to call “software”. Digitone is a whole, everything in its signal path and construction applies to its sound. Your comparison would not make sense under any circumstances. You cannot take Digitone’s sound out of it like a code and just implement it another piece of hardware e.g. a computer with soundcard.

stratum · Post by **stratum** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:23 am

IncarnateX wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:20 am
stratum wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:11 am Oddly isn't that digital(=software) also?
Did you not read the man’s claim that FM is provlematic to implement as dsp? This is not a semantic question about what to call “software”. Digitone is a whole, everything in its signal path and construction applies to its sound. Your comparison would not make sense under any circumstances. You cannot take Digitone’s sound out of it like a code and just implement it another piece of hardware e.g. a computer with soundcard.

I had made that claim. It doesn't mean that there aren't people who know how to deal with it (within limits) and looks like Digitone is also just software in a box.

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:27 am

A couple years ago I was at a Gearfest where Oberheim had a few two voices in a spot next to Pittsburgh modular. I was actually interested in both, but am more drawn to the sound of the two voice .. by a wide margin. Anyhow, I started just listening to people as they made comments to each other while passing through and demoing the systems. There were digital oscillators and a weird filter on the Pittsburgh setup. And it was playing what I can only term as sequenced industrial bleep bloop. You would be surprised how many people made comments about the two voice being "meh" and the Pittsburgh sounded awesome. It kind of shocked me .. cuz you know to me the two voice sounded like a million bucks and the Euro sounded like shit. And I mean total shit. Like SM57 at the bottom of a trash can shit. Just another point of info supporting that opinions on what sounds good are pretty useless as a frame of reference.

generaldiomedes · Post by **generaldiomedes** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:33 am

I ran through some presets on a Sub 37 in a music store .. it sounded good but not good enough to justify the money, space and hassle.

Why will software people not admit hardware sounds better?