Modern FM8?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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antic604
KVRAF
2312 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:40 am

I'm a huge fan of FM synthesis (not FM-capable synths, like Dune or Serum for example) and I believe FM8 covers all the feature-set bases there, but it's quite long in the tooth now (13 years) and the GUI in particular could use a bit of a revamp in terms of clarity (bland colours), scalability to current high-res displays and general multi-page workflow...

I understand it's difficult to design a good-looking FM synth due to sheer complexity, so they either have a very cluttered GUIs - Dexed, Phantom, Blue2 - or they get pretty weird, like recent Waves' Flow Motion. Perhaps' IL's Sytrus and to certain extent Blamsoft's Zero are the closest to ideal in this respect, but the former is pretty expensive and the latter is only available in Rack Extension format. There's also the expanded DX7 in Arturia's V-Collection, which is great; and Bazille that's way over my head when it comes to programming patches.

Is there anything else on the market worth looking at (a proper FM synth)?

Are there any rumours of NI updating the FM8, like they do with Massive?
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sprnva
KVRAF
1531 posts since 16 Jan, 2013

Re: Modern FM8?

Post Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:50 am

I see you already looked at Arturia's DX7 V. There's also their Synclavier.
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Teksonik
KVRAF
12442 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Re: Modern FM8?

Post Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:59 am

antic604 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:40 am
I understand it's difficult to design a good-looking FM synth due to sheer complexity, so they either have a very cluttered GUIs - Dexed, Phantom, Blue2 - or they get pretty weird,
Good thing you never owned a real DX7.......... :hihi:

Maybe Rhino ? :?

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zerocrossing
KVRAF
9508 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Modern FM8?

Post Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:01 am

For a long time I used FM instruments as preset players. I plain and simply didn’t get it, but after watching a Digitone demo video, I thought, “it’s time,” and buckled down to force myself to learn it. I was a bit embarrassed when I realized that I had been avoiding something that plain and simply wasn’t nearly as arcane as I had imagined. So, I dove into all the FM plugins.

FM8 came out on top, IMO. They all (and trust me, I think I may I have them all... or at least most) had good aspects to them, but I found FM8 to be a good blend of features and ease of use, once I figured out it’s UI (not that hard, I never had to crack the manual). I found it pretty easy to do what I wanted, and the sound was very good. Is it the best looking UI out there... no, but it’s pretty clear, and I really like that they abandoned the “algorithm” idea and just let you freely connect operators. I like how you route distortion and filters as well. I don’t think there’s another FM plugin that’s as flexible and sounds as good.

Anyway, I’m not saying that I don’t think it needs an update, but I’m not holding my breath. I’ve pretty much given up on ever seeing an update of those older NI plugins. Either they lost the people who know the code base or they’re just not interested.
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zerocrossing
KVRAF
9508 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Modern FM8?

Post Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:06 am

sprnva wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:50 am
I see you already looked at Arturia's DX7 V. There's also their Synclavier.
DX7 V probably has one of the best UIs, IMO, but it’s not nearly as flexible as FM8. Synclavier V is one of the weirder ones to understand, and while it has really good character, it’s not that feature rich either... well, I do love that they added the resynthesis that the original had.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

drdriller
KVRist
187 posts since 6 Feb, 2017

Re: Modern FM8?

Post Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:08 am

https://www.image-line.com/plugins/Synths/Sytrus

Sytrus is old but has been updated more often and looks more modern.

User avatar
antic604
KVRAF
2312 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Modern FM8?

Post Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:09 am

zerocrossing wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:01 am
For a long time I used FM instruments as preset players. I plain and simply didn’t get it, but after watching a Digitone demo video, I thought, “it’s time,” and buckled down to force myself to learn it. I was a bit embarrassed when I realized that I had been avoiding something that plain and simply wasn’t nearly as arcane as I had imagined. So, I dove into all the FM plugins.

FM8 came out on top, IMO. They all (and trust me, I think I may I have them all... or at least most) had good aspects to them, but I found FM8 to be a good blend of features and ease of use, once I figured out it’s UI (not that hard, I never had to crack the manual). I found it pretty easy to do what I wanted, and the sound was very good. Is it the best looking UI out there... no, but it’s pretty clear, and I really like that they abandoned the “algorithm” idea and just let you freely connect operators. I like how you route distortion and filters as well. I don’t think there’s another FM plugin that’s as flexible and sounds as good.

Anyway, I’m not saying that I don’t think it needs an update, but I’m not holding my breath. I’ve pretty much given up on ever seeing an update of those older NI plugins. Either they lost the people who know the code base or they’re just not interested.
I'm *literally* in the same boat, starting from using FM synths as preset players, through the Cockoo's Digitone tutorial to thinking FM8 is the best, or at least the most balanced :D :hug:
Bitwig 2 // Reason 10 // Cubase Pro 10 @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604
other stuff - Psytrance in Bitwig Studio tutorial

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sinemotor
KVRist
222 posts since 24 Dec, 2015

Re: Modern FM8?

Post Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:10 am

From what I've seen the upcoming synth from Kilohearts looks like a potential modular FM monster among other synthesis forms.

You can add as many VA, WT or sample oscillators as you want, modulate anything to anything including audio-rate modulations, add as much LFOs or Env as you want... and all is displayed on a single page.
Last edited by sinemotor on Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Spencer Maddox
KVRian
501 posts since 19 Oct, 2017 from a state of anxiety

Re: Modern FM8?

Post Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:12 am

Other then the somewhat Dated GUI FM8 is honestly still the Best IMO, In terms of Synths specifically designed for FM.

If not FM8 then Sytris or the DX7 V.
Last edited by Spencer Maddox on Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:19 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Spencer Maddox
KVRian
501 posts since 19 Oct, 2017 from a state of anxiety

Re: Modern FM8?

Post Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:14 am

sinemotor wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:10 am
From what I've seen the upcoming synth from Kilohearts looks like a potential modular FM monster among other synthesis forms.

You can add as many VA, WT or sample oscillators as you want, modulate anything to anything including audio-rate modulations, add as much LFOs or Env as you want... and all is displayed on a single page.
How I am Just Learning About this??
What is THAT?? KHS Falcon? That looks Awesome!
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mrj1nx
KVRian
549 posts since 29 Nov, 2015

Re: Modern FM8?

Post Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:21 am

Spencer Maddox wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:14 am
sinemotor wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:10 am
From what I've seen the upcoming synth from Kilohearts looks like a potential modular FM monster among other synthesis forms.

You can add as many VA, WT or sample oscillators as you want, modulate anything to anything including audio-rate modulations, add as much LFOs or Env as you want... and all is displayed on a single page.
How I am Just Learning About this??
What is THAT?? KHS Falcon? That looks Awesome!
Yeah it looks pretty cool, theres only one catch. You have to buy the insert fx separately for around 20-30 usd per piece.

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Spencer Maddox
KVRian
501 posts since 19 Oct, 2017 from a state of anxiety

Re: Modern FM8?

Post Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:27 am

mrj1nx wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:21 am
Spencer Maddox wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:14 am
sinemotor wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:10 am
From what I've seen the upcoming synth from Kilohearts looks like a potential modular FM monster among other synthesis forms.

You can add as many VA, WT or sample oscillators as you want, modulate anything to anything including audio-rate modulations, add as much LFOs or Env as you want... and all is displayed on a single page.
How I am Just Learning About this??
What is THAT?? KHS Falcon? That looks Awesome!
Yeah it looks pretty cool, theres only one catch. You have to buy the insert fx separately for around 20-30 usd per piece.
Screen Shot 2019-03-22 at 9.34.36 AM.png
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Spencer Maddox
KVRian
501 posts since 19 Oct, 2017 from a state of anxiety

Re: Modern FM8?

Post Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:29 am

Yeah Thats kinda lame not going to lie...
Any Price Estimate?
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Teksonik
KVRAF
12442 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Re: Modern FM8?

Post Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:35 am

antic604 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:40 am
Is there anything else on the market worth looking at (a proper FM synth)?
I assume by proper you mean 6 Op as opposed to 4, maybe the ability to use more than Sine Waves ?

Does it have to have a built in Arp/Seq ? Extensive FX Section ?

I'm racking my brain but Sytrus is the best I can come up with now but you said that's expensive. :?

If I remember correctly Dexed imported my old DX7 patches most accurately of any FM plugin I've owned or tried. If you don't care about original DX patches then that won't be an issue.

To be honest I've burned out on the old DX sounds except for Tubular Bells which I must have until the day they pry the synths from my cold dead hands....... :wheee:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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sinemotor
KVRist
222 posts since 24 Dec, 2015

Re: Modern FM8?

Post Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:46 am

mrj1nx wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:21 am
Yeah it looks pretty cool, theres only one catch. You have to buy the insert fx separately for around 20-30 usd per piece.
yeah I agree. It looks like the $199 edition comes with enough FXs to work with though (Delay, Chorus, 3-Band EQ, Gain, Limiter, Stereo, Compressor, Distortion, Filter, Phaser and Reverb). Note that you can add as many FXs as you want, they can be routed per voice or globally...

But I think the real strength of this synth is the hybrid engine and the modular system.

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