Why is Steinberg working so hard to kill off VST2 when it works so well?

[Deep Purple]

Potential competitors to Steinberg become non-existent, they can't legally create VST2 plugins or VST2 hosts.

Has Steinberg confirmed that they will take legal action against companies developing VST2 plugins or hosts that support it?

I know that they said they are removing the VST2 subset from the VST3 SDK, but I don't recall them outlining any legal limitations towards developers who already own the VST2 SDK.

[Vokbuz]

Potential competitors to Steinberg become non-existent, they can't legally create VST2 plugins or VST2 hosts.

What kind of fallacy is that? I wrote "non-existent potential" not "potential". You haven't answered what direct competitors this attack is against.

You wrote:

they are clearly abusing their control of VST to disadvantage direct competitors to their products, especially newcomers

What competitors are not newcomers?

Sorry, I can't take seriously the conspiracy that this attack is directed against non-existent potential future competitors.

[Vokbuz]

Not true, Max For Live can load VST3 in current Live non-beta version.

Max For Live is not Live. This is a separate product included in Live Suite only.

Even Ableton agree that current release of Live does not support VST3:

VST3 support: Live 10.1 now supports VST3 plug-ins.

[pottering]

Potential competitors to Steinberg become non-existent, they can't legally create VST2 plugins or VST2 hosts.

Has Steinberg confirmed that they will take legal action against companies developing VST2 plugins or hosts that support it?

I know that they said they are removing the VST2 subset from the VST3 SDK, but I don't recall them outlining any legal limitations towards developers who already own the VST2 SDK.

Steinberg already served DMCAs to several devs.

https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/332 ... einberg.md

That's only the people that got a DMCA through github's system, probably many others got a DMCA outside github.

Also worth noting that beyond VST2 plugin and host devs, VST2 middleware devs got disadvantaged too (in fact, they are more affected than the others).

[DPhil]

I read in the other thread distributing the VST2 SDK was never allowed, even with license.

[pottering]

Not true, Max For Live can load VST3 in current Live non-beta version.

Max For Live is not Live. This is a separate product included in Live Suite only.

Even Ableton agree that current release of Live does not support VST3:

VST3 support: Live 10.1 now supports VST3 plug-ins.

That premise doesn't even help Steinberg's case.

That would mean VST3 has even less users...

Remember, Logic Pro, Pro Tools, Reason and others don't run VST3.

Add Live and it is like 60% of the DAW market that doesn't care about VST3, more in the pro studio setting, where Pro Tools still has 50% of the market, and Logic is also big.

[No_Use]

Potential competitors to Steinberg become non-existent, they can't legally create VST2 plugins or VST2 hosts.

Has Steinberg confirmed that they will take legal action against companies developing VST2 plugins or hosts that support it?

I know that they said they are removing the VST2 subset from the VST3 SDK, but I don't recall them outlining any legal limitations towards developers who already own the VST2 SDK.

Steinberg already served DMCAs to several devs.

https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/332 ... einberg.md

That's only the people that got a DMCA through github's system, probably many others got a DMCA outside github.

Also worth noting that beyond VST2 plugin and host devs, VST2 middleware devs got disadvantaged too (in fact, they are more affected than the others).

To be fair, the linked DMCA claims are about hosting / distributing the VST2 API headers, not against devs distributing VST2 plugins.

[pottering]

I misread that post and replied in haste.

[Deep Purple]

Potential competitors to Steinberg become non-existent, they can't legally create VST2 plugins or VST2 hosts.

Has Steinberg confirmed that they will take legal action against companies developing VST2 plugins or hosts that support it?

I know that they said they are removing the VST2 subset from the VST3 SDK, but I don't recall them outlining any legal limitations towards developers who already own the VST2 SDK.

Steinberg already served DMCAs to several devs.

https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/332 ... einberg.md

That's only the people that got a DMCA through github's system, probably many others got a DMCA outside github.

That's completely irrelevant to the question I asked.

[DPhil]

Not true, Max For Live can load VST3 in current Live non-beta version.

https://cycling74.com/forums/will-max-8 ... 3-plug-ins

but then your vst2 steinberg potential competitor statement isn't true too, because lots of plugins can host vst2 plugins without hassle and are available for anyone who wants to do so. that already makes vst2 and vst3 and au available in pro tools and so...

And let's not forget the bitbridges needed because the monopols decided to kick out 32bit or the monopols on OS.

[Vokbuz]

That premise doesn't even help Steinberg's case.

It doesn’t and shouldn’t help anything. It is just a fact.

That would mean VST3 has even less users...

Remember, Logic Pro, Pro Tools, Reason and others don't run VST3.

Add Live and it is like 60% of the DAW market that doesn't care about VST3, more in the pro studio setting, where Pro Tools still has 50% of the market, and Logic is also big.

Nobody here says how much users VST3 has. AAX has even less users so what?

[Vokbuz]

Also worth noting that beyond VST2 plugin and host devs, VST2 middleware devs got disadvantaged too (in fact, they are more affected than the others).

Disadvantaged against whom? Steinberg?

[pottering]

Disadvantaged BY Steinberg.

[pottering]

That premise doesn't even help Steinberg's case.

It doesn’t and shouldn’t help anything. It is just a fact.

That would mean VST3 has even less users...

Remember, Logic Pro, Pro Tools, Reason and others don't run VST3.

Add Live and it is like 60% of the DAW market that doesn't care about VST3, more in the pro studio setting, where Pro Tools still has 50% of the market, and Logic is also big.

Nobody here says how much users VST3 has. AAX has even less users so what?

"So what?", indeed.

You are right, who cares about AAX or many users VST3 has, it doesn't actually matter.

VST3 having more or less users doesn't justify Steinberg trying to kill the VST2 market.

I wanted to talk about how Steinberg arbitrarily and unilaterally preventing competitors from developing VST2 plugins and hosts is unethical (since it is exactly what Steinberg sells, VST2 plugins and hosts) and a clear abuse of their control of the VST2 standard, not about those other issues.

I'll keep to that topic from now on.

[Vokbuz]

Disadvantaged BY Steinberg.

How does this relate to previous statement?

STEINBERG IS AN UNETHICAL COMPANY, they are clearly abusing their control of VST to disadvantage direct competitors to their product

I lost your point. I guess you did it too. Any change creates disadvantages for some and advantages for others.

I wanted to talk about how Steinberg arbitrarily and unilaterally preventing competitors from developing VST2 plugins and hosts is unethical (since it is exactly what Steinberg sells, VST2 plugins and hosts) and a clear abuse of their control of the VST2 standard, not about those other issues.

What competitors? You can't provide a single real example.