KVR Audio

Rabid · Post by **Rabid** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:39 pm

Too bad you cannot run tracks of MIDI out from Live into Sonar.

Robert

Sepheritoh · Post by **Sepheritoh** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:48 pm

Yes you should be able to if you use any of the midi loopback utilities.

kp · Post by kp » Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:14 pm

[quote="hugolp"]No, you create more audio tracks and youll find the option of using one of the multiple outputs of the synth as an input for your audio [/quote]

Which is i) exactly how SONAR does it and ii) inconsistent with its own behaviour!

[quote]multiple outputs the other outputs would apear as audio tracks automatically would be better (or have it as an option at least)... mmm... I think I am going to suggest that to Ableton.[/quote]

Not to rub it in, but SONAR can work that way now - you have a choice of one, all or none audio tracks with the inputs set to be the soft-synth's output when you insert a soft-synth.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:55 pm

hugolp quoth Ok. But you havent use Live a lot

Nope, it wasnt available when I was looking for a host...

cause you cannot have a "MIDI track with a softsynth on it, and some audio tracks also with softsynths"

So what happens with a synth with multiple audio outs?

That doesnt make sense cause it doesnt exist.

What doesnt?

Audio tracks play audio. And Midi tracks play midi and then when you get the synth it outputs sound.

I must be missing something. How does that differs from what I said?

Where does 'the synth' go? On a MIDI track or an audio track? If it has multiple outs, where does it go then?

For me its better cause you have everything in one chanel and you see what you are doing to that instrument alltogether.

So you have multiple MIDI ins, and multiple audio outs all on a single channel when using a multitimbral synth? Yikes.

And all intuitive and in one screen.

Well Sonar still fits stuff in one screen, but separate MIDI from audio, thats all.

Can you ask for more?

Room to see anything?

And maybe traditional sequencer look more like hardware, but that does make it better?

They dont, so no.

You prefer more traditional aproach, maybe you used lots of hardware before and it works better because you are use to it. Fine. Both happy

Nope, not because of hardware, but because the separation of MIDI and audio data makes sense to me. Its like if I was working with audio and video; I want the audio separate from the video not smooshed into the same track just because its possible to do it that way.

WillieJenkins · Post by **WillieJenkins** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:57 pm

hugolp,

its a hard if not impossible sell to try and make the case that multiple outs is handled better in Live then in Sonar.

I use Live and Sonar in tandem, and its the perfect combination I've been looking for so I really have no prejudice either way.

Sonar doesn't attach any midi or audio tracks to softsynths by default if you don't want it to, and if you need real flexible routing, it can't be beat. Conversely, if you want a synth with a single output, its almost impossible to beat Lives way of doing it all in one track.

this is all just my opinion of course

-eric

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 8:00 pm

hugolp quoth No, you create more audio tracks and youll find the option of using one of the multiple outputs of the synth as an input for your audio track.

Doesnt that contradict what you said when I pointed out earlier that this would have to happen...

But you havent use Live a lot, cause you cannot have a "MIDI track with a softsynth on it, and some audio tracks also with softsynths" That doesnt make sense cause it doesnt exist.

So it sounds like you do have MIDI-only tracks, audio-only tracks (sometimes fed from the outputs of multi-output synths), and MIDI-tracks-with-audio-on tracks (ie the primary outputs of a synth), ie the three track types I said earlier.

hugolp · Post by **hugolp** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:37 am

Hi!

Ok, just to finish with the discussion.

whyterabbyt, as I said before, just go an try Live 4 demo, and youll understand what I am saying. I am trying to explain you how Live works but I might have a bad day and not explaining properly or you just dont get it. Just try the demo, because the question you do dot make a lot of sense. Probably part myself cause I havent explain properly (better not saying what I think cause I dont want to keep this going...)

EricRichmond I completely agree with you. In my previous message I said that the way Live handles multiple outputs synth is not great. And thats why I was sugesting a solution. And is not very hard to do, so I hope they can get it done for version 4.2. Just hoping thought

And Rabid, you got the solution!!!!!! Does anybody know how to route midi from Live to a sequencer. Anyway? Rewire, Vst????

Would solve a lot of my problems.

Hugo

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:46 am

hugolp

whyterabbyt, as I said before, just go an try Live 4 demo, and youll understand what I am saying. I am trying to explain you how Live works but I might have a bad day and not explaining properly or you just dont get it. Just try the demo, because the question you do dot make a lot of sense. Probably part myself cause I havent explain properly (better not saying what I think cause I dont want to keep this going...)

Fair enough, its probably easier that way. Not got much time to do it at the moment because Im moving flat, but I'll try and grab the demo.

Thanks for trying to explain it though.

hugolp · Post by **hugolp** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:00 pm

Your welcome

whyterabbyt wrote:hugolp

whyterabbyt, as I said before, just go an try Live 4 demo, and youll understand what I am saying. I am trying to explain you how Live works but I might have a bad day and not explaining properly or you just dont get it. Just try the demo, because the question you do dot make a lot of sense. Probably part myself cause I havent explain properly (better not saying what I think cause I dont want to keep this going...)

Fair enough, its probably easier that way. Not got much time to do it at the moment because Im moving flat, but I'll try and grab the demo.

Thanks for trying to explain it though.

billybk1 · Post by **billybk1** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 9:25 pm

Alex Westner wrote:
headquest wrote:
Ron Kuper wrote: I think using a wrapper for VST(i) is a better situation overall. If some incompatability is found, we can correct the problem by a very small wrapper udpate, instead of a full application update.
I see your point!

Will there be a demo at some point ? - I'm very interested in S4
Yes, we'll post a demo sometime this week.

So it is written, now let it be done.......

......the S4 demo is now officially available. It took almost a month before the SONAR 3 demo became available, so this is a pleasant surprise. Even though I am already enjoying the fruits of S4, many others have yet to taste it!

http://www.cakewalk.com/download/default.asp

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 8:47 am

...and just when I ordered my copy of S4P too.

An' a new soundcard to go with the XP3200 that's going to get slapped in when I get time. Think its time for a ground-up reconstruction and reinstall of me DAW, in fact.

spaceman · Post by **spaceman** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 8:56 am

I'm still waiting for my copy to arrive

new DAW, 'new' sequencer .. I can't wait

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:13 am

spaceman wrote:I'm still waiting for my copy to arrive
new DAW, 'new' sequencer .. I can't wait

So you didn't ditch Sonar in the end? (and I still didn't buy into it yet... basically playing about with Live 4 to see if upgrading to that will cover all my bases without forking out for Sonar as well... jury still "out"!)

spaceman · Post by **spaceman** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:18 am

headquest wrote:
spaceman wrote:I'm still waiting for my copy to arrive
new DAW, 'new' sequencer .. I can't wait
So you didn't ditch Sonar in the end? (and I still didn't buy into it yet... basically playing about with Live 4 to see if upgrading to that will cover all my bases without forking out for Sonar as well... jury still "out"!)

as it turned out, lots of the problems I was having (which gave me a bad feeling about using S3) were down to my failing PC. The new features in S4 helped as well and the fact there was no way in hell I was going to pay the kind of money needed for a cubase SL2 -> SX3 update

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:56 am

spaceman wrote: ... and the fact there was no way in hell I was going to pay the kind of money needed for a cubase SL2 -> SX3 update

Erm... no

.

Glad you've found some solutions now and good luck with the new setup!

I've been overwhelmed by Adobe Audition over the last couple of months. It's become so central to my workflow at present that I'm particularly interested in MIDI sequencing programmes which will run as ReWire slaves within Audition... you probably know I'm a Reason user, and using Audition's fx and audio tools makes my Reason tracks sound...er...much better! But I've also been having great fun with the FL demo - what a great piano roll

. And then there's Live 4 as mentioned.

So I've hardly opened Tracktion once in the last couple of months. Sonar 4 looks awesome - there's no denying! - but it may overlap too much for my needs. Time will tell!

First official SONAR 4 review is in!