KVR Audio

Bump1 · Post by **Bump1** » Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:18 pm

Wondering why this has never been made in plugin format....to my knowledge, elastiqueAAX is the only one that can do it in real time.

The effect im looking for is like found when using a SP-202....this dude demonstrates it perfectly @ about :40

The 202 lets you pitch it in real time with NO artifacts and then stretch it. I can't find any plugin to do this.

Ah_Dziz · Post by **Ah_Dziz** » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:00 am

Every sampler on the market does this.

Ah_Dziz · Post by **Ah_Dziz** » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:01 am

Well every serious sampler. All will let you change pitch or timing or both together with varying degrees of quality.

Bump1 · Post by **Bump1** » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:42 am

I've not seen one softsampler do it as simply and clean as that, it's always a convulted option-fest, always has stepping when pitch is tweaked in real time (IF it can even do it in real time) and the timestretch is always super grainy.

this might do with the SP202's relatively short range of pitch shift in relation to the tempo..but I digress....

Ah_Dziz · Post by **Ah_Dziz** » Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:33 am

Kontakt can do 6 octaves or more of pitch shifting with variable smoothing and grainsize and 4 different stretching algorithms. If you want to change the tempo along with the pitch you have many interpolation algorithms to choose from also. This is what I generally use. Anyway, There are lots lots more that can do the same things as smooth or smoother than the old Roland.

Bump1 · Post by **Bump1** » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:16 am

Ah_Dziz wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:33 am Kontakt can do 6 octaves or more of pitch shifting with variable smoothing and grainsize and 4 different stretching algorithms. If you want to change the tempo along with the pitch you have many interpolation algorithms to choose from also. This is what I generally use.

Kontakt isn't a very elegant solution. And it's not really a "sampler" so to speak...even if one wanted to go thru the annoying process of bringing their samples into Kontakt, I don't believe it does real time. I can't remember.

Anyway, There are lots lots more that can do the same things as smooth or smoother than the old Roland.

Care to name any?? Im trying to find a suitable replacement for a similar workflow.

Dillinger · Post by **Dillinger** » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:26 am

not sure about "no artifacts", guess it depends how far you go, but I use Melodyne, which can achieve your result and so much more.
Also Falcon has ircamm stretch that sounds very good.

Ah_Dziz · Post by **Ah_Dziz** » Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:13 pm

Bump1 wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:16 am
Ah_Dziz wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:33 am Kontakt can do 6 octaves or more of pitch shifting with variable smoothing and grainsize and 4 different stretching algorithms. If you want to change the tempo along with the pitch you have many interpolation algorithms to choose from also. This is what I generally use.
Kontakt isn't a very elegant solution. And it's not really a "sampler" so to speak...even if one wanted to go thru the annoying process of bringing their samples into Kontakt, I don't believe it does real time. I can't remember.

Anyway, There are lots lots more that can do the same things as smooth or smoother than the old Roland.
Care to name any?? Im trying to find a suitable replacement for a similar workflow.

Kontakt is elegant enough for me. Then there’s battery or maschine that all use the same sampling algorithms, and machine has resampling, input sampling direct to pads and all that jazz (so that is probably the closest, from a workflow standpoint to using an old hardware sampler). But any of the NI stuff or Steinberg Halion, or, UVI or any other computer based sampler will let you smothly alter, the pitch, the time, or both, very smothly in real time by a number of different methods with varying degrees of artifacts depending on how far you take it. If you’re on a Mac then alchemy is an option as well.

Bump1 · Post by **Bump1** » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:50 pm

I've been using Maschine as I own an mk3....it does pitch and time well...the only caveat is, in order to have a similar workflow to the sp202, you have to use the audio plugin. Once inside the audio plugin, the sampler workflow is gone. I don't know why they didn't add similar functionality to the sampler engine.

dionenoid · Post by **dionenoid** » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:10 am

Bump1 wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:16 am Kontakt isn't a very elegant solution. And it's not really a "sampler" so to speak...even if one wanted to go thru the annoying process of bringing their samples into Kontakt, I don't believe it does real time. I can't remember.

Grab sample, drop on keyboard, use pitch wheel.
Wanna stretch too ? Switch to time mode, set mod wheel to time, use mod wheel.

And voila : Real-time pitch and stretch.

Same thing for every sampler out there btw. Even simple samplers can do that.

It can't be any easier. And if you think that's an annoying process, try loading a sample into a SP-202

ilmai · Post by **ilmai** » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:03 am

If the problem was about elastiqueAAX not being VST, how about Elastique Pitch?

https://products.zplane.de/elastique-pitch-2

Bump1 · Post by **Bump1** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:21 am

dionenoid wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:10 am
Bump1 wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:16 am Kontakt isn't a very elegant solution. And it's not really a "sampler" so to speak...even if one wanted to go thru the annoying process of bringing their samples into Kontakt, I don't believe it does real time. I can't remember.
Grab sample, drop on keyboard, use pitch wheel.
Wanna stretch too ? Switch to time mode, set mod wheel to time, use mod wheel.

Gotta touch the mouse though...so toggling back between pitch and time is a bit of a nuisance.

Same thing for every sampler out there btw. Even simple samplers can do that.

Sure, but most samplers are a bit steppy, or have noticeable aliasing when pitching.

It can't be any easier. And if you think that's an annoying process, try loading a sample into a SP-202

Haha, touche. To be fair though...I sample into Maschine the old fashioned way too!

Bump1 · Post by **Bump1** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:23 am

ilmai wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:03 am If the problem was about elastiqueAAX not being VST, how about Elastique Pitch?

https://products.zplane.de/elastique-pitch-2

But no time. I have no clue why they won't offer it in VST format

sandormatyi · Post by **sandormatyi** » Thu Sep 07, 2023 4:36 pm

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Bump1 wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:23 am
ilmai wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:03 am If the problem was about elastiqueAAX not being VST, how about Elastique Pitch?

https://products.zplane.de/elastique-pitch-2 (https://products.zplane.de/elastique-pitch-2)
But no time. I have no clue why they won't offer it in VST format

"Real-time" timestretching is an oxymoron. It cannot be done via a plugin.

If it wanted to make the incoming audio shorter, it would have to see the future. Let's say your audio buffer is 10 milliseconds long. If you wanted to stretch to half the time, the plugin would need to know the next 20 milliseconds to fill the 10 ms long output buffer. It also adds up so for the next audio frame, it would need to look another 10 ms ahead into the future.

If it wanted to make the incoming audio longer, it would need to keep a continuously growing amount of data in its memory. While this is not impossible, it's not very elegant and users would probably feel it's pretty limiting to be only able to do it one way.
Making it behave deterministically is also a challenge - what would happen if you moved the playhead of the DAW manually? Should it start stretching from that point or should it calculate the output's time from the project start?

Real-Time Pitch + Time Stretch??