Windows Plugins Dynamically Scaling

[LB0ND]

So I recently switched over to Windows for my main rig, using a 4K monitor.

I'm using Ableton Live 10 which now supports HiDPI and Ableton itself looks great.

One thing I've noticed though is how plugins scale in Ableton (I'm sure this is the same for other DAWs too). By default plugin scaling is switched on which results in the plugins looking really blurry on my 4K panel (150% scaling in windows) and if I turn it off the plugin will look tiny. Some plugins that are well coded like fabfilter will auto-resize and look amazing, where as others like Sylenth1 or Serum, you have to manually change the scaling % in the plugin itself so it's retina and at a nice size. The ones you can't resize you're screwed basically.

On mac, the plugins would just auto re-size to whatever my Overal scaling settings are for the OS. I know windows has been a bit behind in this area but when will we see more plugins behave like the fabfilter ones?

[rewrite history]

So I recently switched over to Windows for my main rig, using a 4K monitor.

I'm using Ableton Live 10 which now supports HiDPI and Ableton itself looks great.

One thing I've noticed though is how plugins scale in Ableton (I'm sure this is the same for other DAWs too). By default plugin scaling is switched on which results in the plugins looking really blurry on my 4K panel (150% scaling in windows) and if I turn it off the plugin will look tiny. Some plugins that are well coded like fabfilter will auto-resize and look amazing, where as others like Sylenth1 or Serum, you have to manually change the scaling % in the plugin itself so it's retina and at a nice size. The ones you can't resize you're screwed basically.

On mac, the plugins would just auto re-size to whatever my Overal scaling settings are for the OS. I know windows has been a bit behind in this area but when will we see more plugins behave like the fabfilter ones?

By 2020, more than half of U.S. households are expected to have 4K-capable TVs, a much faster adoption rate than that of Full HD (1080p)

TVs are much more common in households then computer monitors, especially the latest technologically advanced ones. You might have to wait until 4k monitors become practical to code for. That would equal a lot of time, energy and money to bring large libraries and legacy products up to date. The small fraction of 4k monitor owners in the audio community doesn't warrant such change at this time.

You will always have slow adoption and change with the newest technological advancements, such as VST2 to VST3 and 32 bit to 64 bit. Some companies stay at the leading edge of technology, while others wait until it becomes mandatory.

[antic604]

On mac, the plugins would just auto re-size to whatever my Overal scaling settings are for the OS. I know windows has been a bit behind in this area but when will we see more plugins behave like the fabfilter ones?

Majority of new plugins either scale by themselves or have GUIs of different sizes, but I wouldn't count on NI, Waves or Soundtoys to update their old stuff

BTW, in Bitwig 2.5 you also have a toggle in settings to "force" high-DPI support (in Plugins tab) and if you right-click on a plugin in Browser you can specify whether it should be scaled or not. Basically it's the same now as in Live 10.

[DJ Warmonger]

On mac, the plugins would just auto re-size to whatever my Overal scaling settings are for the OS. I know windows has been a bit behind in this area but when will we see more plugins behave like the fabfilter ones?

Mac provides standarized GUI library for everybody to use, so Apple could update it once and for all on their side.
On Windows, every developer uses a graphics library of his choice - many of them are legacy bitmap-based solutions and need a complete rewrite on developer's side There are no magic solutions to that and per-window scaling Ableton provides is all we could hope for.

[AdvancedFollower]

TVs are much more common in households then computer monitors, especially the latest technologically advanced ones. You might have to wait until 4k monitors become practical to code for. That would equal a lot of time, energy and money to bring large libraries and legacy products up to date. The small fraction of 4k monitor owners in the audio community doesn't warrant such change at this time.

Laptops are becoming more and more popular for music production, and this results in a higher pixel density even at lower resolutions. E.g. 27" at 4K is 163 ppi, but even at 1920x1080, a 13.3" screen is at 166 ppi. So the GUI will appear smaller on the 1080p laptop than the 27" 4K screen.

For older plugins, we'll just have to hope DAWs implement their own bitmap scaling. It will look blurry, but at least it will be readable. Any new plugin developed should have the source bitmaps at 4k (or 8K for future-proofing?) and scale down to lower resolutions. Or just use vector graphics and don't worry about resolutions or pixel densities ever again.

[LB0ND]

Agreed there are lots of 4K laptops on the market now.

I might compile a list of plugins that works has hiDPi awareness on each platform.

I noticed the Izotope plugins look beautiful at 4K on my Mac with its built in scaling where as windows they’re either blurry or tiny with no option to resize, same goes for Valhalla

[antic604]

It's a mess right now and will continue so for at least few years to come...

That's why I'm currently switching from Surface Pro 4's 12'' screen of 2736x1824 (267 PPI), to a 1080p 15'' laptop at 145 PPI. Only Bitwig 2.5 and Live 10 properly handle high-DPI on Windows (allow DPI-aware plugins to scale by themselves, those that have different size GUIs can be adjusted manually and the rest is simply stretched).

[ckam03]

Agreed there are lots of 4K laptops on the market now.

I might compile a list of plugins that works has hiDPi awareness on each platform.

I noticed the Izotope plugins look beautiful at 4K on my Mac with its built in scaling where as windows they’re either blurry or tiny with no option to resize, same goes for Valhalla

At this point, it should be the other way. Most plugins have proper hidpi scaling except for the some of the bigger companies. NI, Soundtoys, Waves allegedly with some of the older plugins, Izotope, can't think of anything else off the top of my head.

[rewrite history]

It's a mess right now and will continue so for at least few years to come...

Yeah, 4k resolution isn't a top priority for most people working in the audio industry. That would be more for graphic designers, video editors, video gamers and movie enthusiasts at this point. Until the demand for 4k resolution reaches a much higher threshold, a few years like you said, it's just wishful thinking. But, some companies have the resources to deliver this feature to a small fraction of their customer base.