Reason 10.3 is out ...and it's awesome!

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
steff3
KVRian
574 posts since 7 Oct, 2006

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:09 am

v1o - that was partly my point .... with Reason you have a couple of great sequncer Players and REs which can be modulated in realtime and freely arranged .... IMHO a less 'dated' workflow than the tape machine paradigm ....

Live's workflow - personally I think Bitwig (easily use pattern grid and sequence together) and Maschine software (combination between Pattern / Ideas / Sequence view)bring that approach further ..... so, Live feels quite limited in this concern ... but then Maschine itself is awkward in lots of ways ...

The workflow in Reason is quite open ... but then halfbaken .... If you want a couple of patterns you have to use multiple players .... explosion in the Rack .... also no concept for playing styles / articulations .....

Personally, I think sequencing workflows did not evolve a lot in the last two decades .... sadly

xbitz
KVRAF
2437 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Re: Reason 10.3 is out ...and it's awesome!

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:25 am

antic604 wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:55 pm
...
- if you have an instrument followed by chain of 5 FX and you want to automate each of those FX, the sequencer will put those automations in separate FX tracks (that you can't hide or collapse), totalling 6 tracks for the part,
...
Volt SL-1 ?
...
CONTROLS
Up to 24 controls can be plugged to any control voltage input from any Reason or Rack Extension device. Each control can be adjusted between -1 and +1 (or 0 and +1 with version 2.1), can be labeled and assigned to color coded groups to help you identify your setup.

SETS
Switch or crossfade rapidly between 12 sets of values. Up to 12 sets of values for each of the 24 controls can be configured lets rapidly switch or crossfade between these values. Meters enable you to visualize the current state of your SL-1 and the weights of each set in the final output.

TRANSITIONS
Sync your crossfade duration and start (or end with version 2.1) to a note. Switching from one set to another can be instantaneous or smooth by adjusting the transition duration, in note durations. And if you don’t feel confident in your rhythmic precision, you can also sync the start of the transition to a note, all synced to the current tempo.
...
etc.
https://www.propellerheads.com/shop/rac ... volt-sl-1/

so
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxdEVBbsf1Q&
luckily Reason doesn't block the target controls after the assignments as Ableton Live do it, cv system in Reason is quite flexible I like it
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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antic604
KVRAF
2319 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Reason 10.3 is out ...and it's awesome!

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:00 am

xbitz wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:25 am
Volt SL-1 ?
Not everything is accessible via CV cables and I hate using Combinators (and they're very limited anyway). And even with SL-1, you end up with a separate track to drive all your FX and you can't hide/collapse it, which literally doubles the amount of tracks in my project which is a - unnecessary! - workflow issue on a laptop. Also, you end up with pretty complex web of devices & cables, so then adjusting anything down the line or coming back to an old project is a mess. There just should be an option in Preferences to choose if automation is tied to mix channel or to the respective device (like you can for some instrument parameters choose to keep them in MIDI clip or in automation lane). Simple as that!

I think I've said it few times, but Reason is brilliant as an inspiration provider and small projects are a blast, but once they get bigger things easily get out of hand in both Sequencer and the Rack. Perhaps that's the case with real hardware studios that Reason tries to emulate, but then why not go all-in: why there's no real MIDI cables going from sequencer to instruments? why there's no cables going from mix channel to the audio interface? why we can disable FX (with that on, bypass, off switch up top) but not instruments? There's lots of places where choice seems arbitrary (between being a computer app or an emulation of hardware setup), which simply makes it slightly inconsistent and probably contributes to that 'dated' label.

And I'm not saying Reason is the only DAW that has this problem. It's just what we're discussing now - I could write pages about inconsistencies in Bitwig or clutter and literally dated design of Cubase...
Bitwig 2 // Reason 10 // Cubase Pro 10 @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604
other stuff - Psytrance in Bitwig Studio tutorial

xbitz
KVRAF
2437 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Re: Reason 10.3 is out ...and it's awesome!

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:50 am

^^^ it can be controlled with MIDI notes(lowest octave range can be routed to it in the Combinator) so it takes only an other lane, MIDI notes can go to blocks, state changes into the main arranger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BPjBfG_trA
definitely seems better than drawing automations and far more manageable
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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antic604
KVRAF
2319 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Reason 10.3 is out ...and it's awesome!

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:07 am

xbitz wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:50 am
definitely seems better than drawing automations and far more manageable
For you, perhaps :)
It really depends on type of music and one's personal style :)
Bitwig 2 // Reason 10 // Cubase Pro 10 @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604
other stuff - Psytrance in Bitwig Studio tutorial

Psuper
KVRist
188 posts since 3 May, 2018

Re: Reason 10.3 is out ...and it's awesome!

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:50 am

I've 'octopus armed' in reason racks for a long time, and before that hardware racks, so I have the patience to bounce around scrolling. However prior my 4k setup it was an absolute slog of a chore playing musical windows and dealing with the relatively small rack space scrolling, tabbing, scrolling, dragging, shift dragging, missing, undoing, etc.

There's so many improvements that could be made to the core DAW its laughable, however the workflow itself isn't bad as Antic said, regardless of screen real estate, if you're working with smaller projects like I typically do.
Reason needs to DAW: Props develop the back-end, SDK, performance, options, GUI (no one else can). RE devs develop the now-expanding playground, we choose the rides. If Props insists on making devices, put them in the RE shop. All problems solved.

Eclectus
KVRist
156 posts since 1 Dec, 2013 from Belgium

Re: Reason 10.3 is out ...and it's awesome!

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:13 am

I see a few users state that Reason is now as quick as other hosts, but I am still sceptical. I don't doubt that it is faster, but saying that it is now as good as the major players could be confirmation bias. So, I am very interested in seeing some benchmark numbers. (Hurray for science!) Anyone care to compare performance to another major DAW, using the same plugins and tracks? I would join but I currently only have a MacBook 12 available and that is not powerful enough for even the simplest of tasks.

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EnochLight
KVRian
1216 posts since 21 Mar, 2012 from your mom

Re: Reason 10.3 is out ...and it's awesome!

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:02 am

Eclectus wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:13 am
I see a few users state that Reason is now as quick as other hosts, but I am still sceptical. I don't doubt that it is faster, but saying that it is now as good as the major players could be confirmation bias. So, I am very interested in seeing some benchmark numbers. (Hurray for science!) Anyone care to compare performance to another major DAW, using the same plugins and tracks? I would join but I currently only have a MacBook 12 available and that is not powerful enough for even the simplest of tasks.
I only tested R 10.3 against Reaper and Studio One. As expected, Reaper keeps the crown as being able to have the most plugins by a long shot. Studio One and Reason came up neck and neck for me, but I didn't write down the numbers at the time. If I get a chance, I'll see about running them again and taking down exact numbers.
  • Presonus Studio One 4.5 | too many VSTi's to name
  • Windows 10 64-bit | Reason 10.4 | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Tech Panorama P4 | Akai MPC Live | too many RE's to name

Eclectus
KVRist
156 posts since 1 Dec, 2013 from Belgium

Re: Reason 10.3 is out ...and it's awesome!

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:11 am

EnochLight wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:02 am
Studio One and Reason came up neck and neck for me, but I didn't write down the numbers at the time. If I get a chance, I'll see about running them again and taking down exact numbers.
Wow, that sounds great! Thanks for chiming in.

THE INTRANCER
KVRian
949 posts since 30 Dec, 2014

Re: Reason 10.3 is out ...and it's awesome!

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:13 am

Eclectus wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:13 am
I see a few users state that Reason is now as quick as other hosts, but I am still sceptical. I don't doubt that it is faster, but saying that it is now as good as the major players could be confirmation bias. So, I am very interested in seeing some benchmark numbers. (Hurray for science!) Anyone care to compare performance to another major DAW, using the same plugins and tracks? I would join but I currently only have a MacBook 12 available and that is not powerful enough for even the simplest of tasks.


I'll be downloading it and running my own tests over the weekend, however from the other Beta thread.. over here there are these results... which have been posted.

Studio One 4.14. 99 instances
Bitwig 2.5.1r4 81 instances
Reason 10.3b9d72 44 instances
Ableton Live 10.06 43 instances
THE INTRANCER-Digital 2D & 3D GUI / Music Artist - Orchestral Trance - Ambient - Film Scores | Soundcloud 27 | Soundclick 16 | Producing Music For 25+Years & Sound Monitoring FOH at UK Stadium/Festivals for Carl Cox, FatBoy Slim ect

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EnochLight
KVRian
1216 posts since 21 Mar, 2012 from your mom

Re: Reason 10.3 is out ...and it's awesome!

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:20 am

THE INTRANCER wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:13 am
I'll be downloading it and running my own tests over the weekend, however from the other Beta thread.. over here there are these results... which have been posted.

Studio One 4.14. 99 instances
Bitwig 2.5.1r4 81 instances
Reason 10.3b9d72 44 instances
Ableton Live 10.06 43 instances
Studio One gets significantly better performance if you don't have track monitoring on. Curious if that's how they were able to get such a large discrepancy..?
  • Presonus Studio One 4.5 | too many VSTi's to name
  • Windows 10 64-bit | Reason 10.4 | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Tech Panorama P4 | Akai MPC Live | too many RE's to name

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Tronam
KVRAF
1626 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from Seattle, WA - USA

Re: Reason 10.3 is out ...and it's awesome!

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:52 am

It makes sense for Ableton Live and Reason to have similar performance; they both feature real-time audio engines that match the set buffer size. Many DAWs like Logic, Cubase and I think Studio One (not sure about Bitwig) use different buffers for live tracks vs. playback. Logic, for example, by default runs with a 1024 buffer during playback on non-live tracks. Cubase does this too; I think they call it ASIO Guard. It really helps a lot when playing back huge projects with lots of plugins.

xbitz
KVRAF
2437 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Re: Reason 10.3 is out ...and it's awesome!

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:17 pm

antic604 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:07 am
xbitz wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:50 am
definitely seems better than drawing automations and far more manageable
For you, perhaps :)
It really depends on type of music and one's personal style :)
ok then what about if the state changing are triggered with a drum sequencer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9cHECUTIyw
in this case it needs only one MIDI track with the notes :ud: ... ok then it needs envelope shapers instead :D
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

Trancit
KVRAF
2080 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: Reason 10.3 is out ...and it's awesome!

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:15 pm

THE INTRANCER wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:13 am
I'll be downloading it and running my own tests over the weekend, however from the other Beta thread.. over here there are these results... which have been posted.

Studio One 4.14. 99 instances
Bitwig 2.5.1r4 81 instances
Reason 10.3b9d72 44 instances
Ableton Live 10.06 43 instances
I don´t know if you are probably on a Mac and I don´t refer to Reason here but according to my tests I did here on Win10 Studio One is perhaps a tiny bit better than Ableton and Bitwig but by far not that much...

From my experience on my system the result would be:

Reaper 105
Studio One 99
Bitwig 95
Ableton 94
FL Studio 92

On Win10 the single DAWs are quite close together with a little advance of S1 and Reaper because of the internal tricks they use (I would guess Cubase with ASIO Guard would be in the same ballpark)...

It is impossible that Ableton can only run less than the half instances of Studio One...
There is something f*cked of your system or your Ableton installation...

...or it´s again such a Mac thingie...

THE INTRANCER
KVRian
949 posts since 30 Dec, 2014

Re: Reason 10.3 is out ...and it's awesome!

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:35 pm

Trancit wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:15 pm
I don´t know if you are probably on a Mac and I don´t refer to Reason here but according to my tests I did here on Win10 Studio One is perhaps a tiny bit better than Ableton and Bitwig but by far not that much...

From my experience on my system the result would be:

Reaper 105
Studio One 99
Bitwig 95
Ableton 94
FL Studio 92

On Win10 the single DAWs are quite close together with a little advance of S1 and Reaper because of the internal tricks they use (I would guess Cubase with ASIO Guard would be in the same ballpark)...

It is impossible that Ableton can only run less than the half instances of Studio One...
There is something f*cked of your system or your Ableton installation...

...or it´s again such a Mac thingie...
You'll be asking xbitz these questions then because these are his results... :clown:
THE INTRANCER-Digital 2D & 3D GUI / Music Artist - Orchestral Trance - Ambient - Film Scores | Soundcloud 27 | Soundclick 16 | Producing Music For 25+Years & Sound Monitoring FOH at UK Stadium/Festivals for Carl Cox, FatBoy Slim ect

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