Fathom Synth Thread

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
zzz00m
KVRAF
1829 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Post Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:23 am

Surge and z3ta+ are covered as examples in this free ebook from author Simon Cann, in "How to Make a Noise: a Comprehensive Guide to Synthesizer Programming".

How to make a noise: Free Book
viewtopic.php?f=100&t=76293
https://noisesculpture.com/how-to-make- ... ogramming/
Windows 10; with instruments from AAS, Ableton, AIR, Ample Sound, Cakewalk, IK Multimedia, iZotope, KV331, NI, PreSonus, Seaweed Audio, SONiVOX, TAL, Tracktion, u-he, UVI, Vember Audio, Waves, Way Out Ware, XLN, others...

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AmbieticA
KVRist
37 posts since 8 Mar, 2019

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

Post Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:43 pm

FathomSynth wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:01 pm
The elite version of Fathom will have a chop function which is already implemented.

This is actually a good time to request oscillator shaping options since I am developing that code now.

That sounds awesome, can't wait for the Elite version! I have a request ...would it be possible to have the ability to modulate each individual harmonic partial in the Additive Spectrum, from Envelopes to LFO's etc... Also add 128 partials per oscillator? And another request for a section your not coding in yet: a 128 band formant filter, or just formant filters in general for the creation of vowels and vocoding? :)
Ambient Sound Design & Soundtrack Composition - http://ambietica.lyonsdenmultimedia.com/

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
2482 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:34 am

If you don‘t modulate a peak filter, you got a formant. 128 would just eat cpu for no use...

BBFG#
KVRAF
5612 posts since 28 Apr, 2013

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:38 am

Sorry if I missed it. But what is the difference between "elite" and "pro"?

Kwurqx
KVRist
358 posts since 15 Jun, 2017

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:03 am

FathomSynth wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:52 am
Thanks guys, I'll make time to look at this sometime during the current oscillator development.

I took a quick look through the Surge manual. It looks like a very well designed instrument. Unfortunately they don't say much about exactly how their various oscillator wave shaping options are working and what exactly they do. However, it looks like it would be well worth playing with it a bit.
Well....Surge is an Open Source project now. If you want to know EXACTLY how stuff works.....the answer is in the Source Code.

But Surge has a (small) graphical representation of the oscillator shape in it's graphical interface. Just fiddling with the shaping knobs does give an impression of what is happening under the hood.

It is my experience that the interaction between shaping the oscillator, combined with filter drive (mixer output) and filter cutoff/resonance gives you very detailed control over the desired spectrum (both static and dynamic).

Also control over oscillatorshape gives you more control over stuff like filter behaviour and all sorts of non-linearities, also post synth engine stuff like chorus or reverb, since behaviour varies with changes in the spectrum fed in/through.

Kwurqx
KVRist
358 posts since 15 Jun, 2017

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:59 am

AmbieticA wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:43 pm
That sounds awesome, can't wait for the Elite version! I have a request ...would it be possible to have the ability to modulate each individual harmonic partial in the Additive Spectrum, from Envelopes to LFO's etc... Also add 128 partials per oscillator? And another request for a section your not coding in yet: a 128 band formant filter, or just formant filters in general for the creation of vowels and vocoding? :)
Way back in this thread I popped in some Additive Synthesis / FFT / iFFT stuff. Like the per partial modulation of a partials amplitude (and/or phase). It might happen.

In FFT/iFFT terms you can implement a formant filter by directly manipulating amplitudes of partials. E.g. with a sort-of grapical EQ like static or dynamic curve. Or by having the amplitudes of one spectrums partials modulate the amplitudes of another spectrums partials.

Kwurqx
KVRist
358 posts since 15 Jun, 2017

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:06 am

Check out the rather unique Hilbert Transform module as implemented in Full Bucket's brilliant ModulAir
https://www.kvraudio.com/product/modula ... cket-music

as demonstrated in (t)his video (@11:35).
https://youtu.be/mttlQWoq8_8?t=695

FathomSynth
KVRian
1098 posts since 25 Mar, 2017 from Philadelphia, PA, USA

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:42 am

The additive spectrum oscillator will have 128 partials in the editor. I already implemented this in the Fathom Elite code. Actually all oscillators will have this since in the Elite version all oscillators have a partials editor. This is already implemented.

You will not be able to modulate an individual partial. However, the wave table will provide access to 128 partials of each frame and you can modulate the frames. Therefore since you can do anything you want to the partials in each frame, technically yes you can modulate individual partials by modulating the frames.

Also, the partials editor has a bezier curve on top of the partials so you can edit the partials using any curve just like an envelope. That also is already implemented in the Fathom Elite code.

I have been wanting to add a Formant filter for a long time, but was never able to find a good mathematical description of one, so if you can post an article here which shows it clearly then I will add it.

Ok, good point about Surge, I’ll take a look before releasing Elite.

Kwurqx, Yes, I do remember you mentioning that. I’ve made myself a feature reminder here to take a hard look at your FFT ideas before releasing Fathom Elite. Fathom’s Gaussian filter works exactly like that by operating directly on the partials, so extending that would not be a big deal at all. I will also consider the Hillbert Transform.

More an Fathom Elite in second.

FathomSynth
KVRian
1098 posts since 25 Mar, 2017 from Philadelphia, PA, USA

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:44 am

Fathom Elite will be the elite version of Fathom. The primary diferentiating features will be the following.

1. Intel Vector SIMD processor instructions for approx 8X poly multiply.

2. NVidia CUDA GPU processing for an unknown multiply (theoretically X1024) current testing is about a 10X multiply.

3. Unified Oscillators, meaning all oscillators are built on the same internal object making it possible to morph between any oscillator in real time using modulation.

4. Unified shaping features for all oscillators, for instance the shift, expand and ripple functions currently found only on the Frequency Pulse oscillator are applicable to all oscillators. This is already implemented in the Elite code.

5. Eventually a full featured Sampler with deeply sampled acoustic and electric guitars and upright and grand piano.

6. Eventually an advanced Arpeggiator.

Test versions of Vector SIMD and CUDA GPU are already complete in the code and functioning perfectly, however the primary processing code still needs to be converted.

Fathom Elite will be approximately $125.00 placing it at the low end of the other cutting edge synths such as Serum, Avenger, Diva, Thorn, Dune, Sylenth, Synthmaster etc.

However, anyone who already purchased Fathom Pro and contributed to upgrades will be reimbursed for the total amount they have contributed to Fathom taking into account and summing all possible purchases over their complete sales history with Fathom. This will most likely include sound bank purchases as well.

BBFG#
KVRAF
5612 posts since 28 Apr, 2013

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:02 pm

:-o Well shoot, now I think I'm going to have to buy this...

Kwurqx
KVRist
358 posts since 15 Jun, 2017

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

Post Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:06 am

Not sure if I mentioned the concepts below in this thread allready....but....

I'd like to see AM implemented the same way as FM (PM) is (usually) implemented in an FM (PM) synthesizer. That is "operators" (oscillators in a "modulator" role) modulating the AMPLITUDE of one or more other operators (oscillators in a "carrier" role) in a modulation matrix (what Yamaha called an "algorithm").Where, just like in FM (PM) each oscillator ("operator") can be both a "modulator" (control output) and/or a "carrier" (audio output).

And including feedback (both self-feedback and/or feedback into other oscillators in the chain/configuration/matrix). Preferably also in a configurable/free matrix where one can configure feedback paths and levels (which could then also be modulated).

I'd like to see FM (PM) having these capabilities too by the way. And be able to use both AM and FM (PM) in the same modulation matrix....

Anyway....

All this needs audiorate modulation functionality...and feedback functionality....and a more "modular" design approach as I mentioned somewhere earlier in this thread.

And...if oscillators could have a full audiorange....0 Hz to say 20 kHz...you could also combine LFO pitch and amplitude modulation and audiorate modulation. And morph/modulate from LFO into audiorate.

And...could oscillators also be set to a fixed frequency (LFO or audiorate)? But with possibility to be modulated down to 0 Hz or from or to note or note independent other frequency? Even more options.

In PM (Phase Modulation) setting the carrier to a fixed frequency of 0 Hz, this opens the door to PM waveshaping. The Yamaha DX can only go down to 1 Hz (and some detuning), which results in an unstable spectrum (the spectrum/oscillator is modulated at carrier frequency rate). The Yamaha SY77/99 can go down to 0 Hz at fixed frequency.

Hopefully all this gives you some inpiration for future development?

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AmbieticA
KVRist
37 posts since 8 Mar, 2019

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

Post Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:43 am

Kwurqx wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:59 am
Way back in this thread I popped in some Additive Synthesis / FFT / iFFT stuff. Like the per partial modulation of a partials amplitude (and/or phase). It might happen.
Glad I'm in good Additive company! :wink:
FathomSynth wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:42 am
The additive spectrum oscillator will have 128 partials in the editor. I already implemented this in the Fathom Elite code. Actually all oscillators will have this since in the Elite version all oscillators have a partials editor. This is already implemented.

You will not be able to modulate an individual partial. However, the wave table will provide access to 128 partials of each frame and you can modulate the frames. Therefore since you can do anything you want to the partials in each frame, technically yes you can modulate individual partials by modulating the frames.

Also, the partials editor has a bezier curve on top of the partials so you can edit the partials using any curve just like an envelope. That also is already implemented in the Fathom Elite code.

I have been wanting to add a Formant filter for a long time, but was never able to find a good mathematical description of one, so if you can post an article here which shows it clearly then I will add it.
That is the BEST news I've heard all day/night! I can't wait to delve into deeper Additive with Fathom. As for the Formant Filter. I haven't found anything yet, and I'm still searching, but I did find a 6 page paper on Time Domain Formant Wave Function Synthesis that might help. It shows mathematically applied examples, and could be an idea for a new Oscillator type? I uploaded it here if your interested:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/5czq9225v ... s.zip/file

I'll keep searching for more on Formants :)
Ambient Sound Design & Soundtrack Composition - http://ambietica.lyonsdenmultimedia.com/


FathomSynth
KVRian
1098 posts since 25 Mar, 2017 from Philadelphia, PA, USA

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

Post Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:46 am

Kwurqx, Many great ideas, I saved your entire post in my feature list. I think AM already does that or at least you should be able to connect AM in series and parrallel. I use to test for that so let me know if it is broken. Same with FM.

Fathom Elite will have oscillator tone controls which will enable you to continuously vary between a pitch indendant or low frequency oscillator and a standard tonal oscillator. The dial will also allow any position between these two extremes which would be use ful for drum oscillators where you want it to be semi-tonal but not completely.

AmbieticA, I’ll take a look at the TDFW paper when I have a chance.

RPH, I really like those square wave options, I will try to get that also into the Elite oscillators.

Kwurqx
KVRist
358 posts since 15 Jun, 2017

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

Post Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:10 pm

<whoops, wrong thread, deleted>

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