Arturia VCollection 7 Official thread

[SHall1000]

B3 V2 is only showing 48 presets but 131 in Analogue lab 4. When I installed B3 V2 version one was still installed so I uninstalled it. I suspect the missing 83 where the original V1 presets. Is this a bug or am I missing something?

[Tj Shredder]

I‘d reinstall B1, I guess thats it. But who need presets with a drawbar organ???...

[fmr]

B3 V2 is only showing 48 presets but 131 in Analogue lab 4. When I installed B3 V2 version one was still installed so I uninstalled it. I suspect the missing 83 where the original V1 presets. Is this a bug or am I missing something?

B3 V2 is different. The presets aren't compatible. If you want the V1 presets, you need to keep V1 installed. "It's not a bug, it's a feature"

[beely]

I've converted the CZ1, CZ101, CZ230S, RC10/RC20/RC30 banks for use with CZV here:

Thanks Oli!

[Zipede]

Sadly, the CZ doesn't appear to like my CZ230S sysex dumps. The CZ230S was my first synthesizer and has a special place in my heart. I used to have two of them sync'd over MIDI and used the internal sequencers to copy chart songs at the time. I'd like to be able to have those patches again.

I've converted the CZ1, CZ101, CZ230S, RC10/RC20/RC30 banks for use with CZV here: http://olilarkin.co.uk/downloads/CZV_casio_banks.zip

I tagged them using the rather excellent preset manager

An additional 388 presets!!! Thank you so much!

[DocAtlas]

V stands for "Vintage". Pigments is not a "vintage" instrument, it is a modern instrument, therefore, I doubt it will ever be part of V Collection. Same thing goes for any new instruments Arturia comes up with, as well as for the effects.

That's what I used to think, but I remember someone from Arturia saying in another thread that V stands for Virtual, not Vintage.

Still, I doubt that Pigments will ever be a part of V Collection, even if the sounds are are in Analog Lab

[ChamomileShark]

im wondering where ppl are getting all these old hardware synths such as Synthi to make such comparisons....

well... at least it took 10 pages before someone farted out "it doesn't sound like the real thing!".

Yes but that is an inevitable because this is being sold as an emulation with great play being made re it's authentic sound.

What is also disingenuous is the way Arturia trademarked "Synthi" both for use on software and hardware when the hardware Synthis are still being made.

So, your "problem" is because Arturia "trademarked" the name Synthi... Why is it "disingenious"? It's a purely business decision. AFAIK, the Oberheim name was used for other synths under the Gibson umbrella, while Tom Oberheim was building SEMs under his own name. And Bob Moog had to build devices under the name "Big Briar" because he lost the rights to use the Moog name.

And "the hardware Synthis" aren't still being made. Someone may be building something using old schematics and similar components, but the original owners and builders (which were Peter Zinovieff, Tristram Cary and David Cockerell) aren't involved anymore. He is making Synthis as much as Behringer is making Minimoogs. Nothing against - I'm glad someone are still doing it. But EMS died, and the precious studio devices collection (which was of great importance historically) was left to rot abandoned in a store basement, much to the shame of those who took the decision.

Besides you still didn't prove the emulation doesn't sound like the real thing. You didn't even tried the emulation, as you said yourself. You are totally biased in your judgement, and these statements prove that. Biased as you are, any tests coming from you would be regarded by me with a grain of salt (or more)

ok, lets unpack this.

Re Arturia's business practices, read the comments from "papz" on the thread below. I have a more detail on it but Arturia don't come out of it well. I note there may also be legal action so I don't want to reveal that right now. But it was me that alerted Robin Wood re the trademarking following a post on KvR mentioning it.

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... c&start=75

Re the "hardware synthis aren't being built" and the other comments those aren't right. The Synthis were designed by Peter Zinovieff, Tristram Cary and David Cockerell but built by their staff of which they had quite a few. The business was sold by Zinovieff in the 80s(?) and after several other people had a go at it it was bought by Robin Wood. He was demonstrator / saleman who joined in 1970. As far as I know he has been fixing and building Synthis on and off since then. No doubt he lent a hand in building Synthis while it was still owned by Zinovieff. This isn't like Oberheim or Big Briar.

"Besides you still didn't prove the emulation doesn't sound like the real thing. You didn't even tried the emulation, as you said yourself. " I've provided some basic EMS sounds - you can understand why I didn't feel like downloading the Synthi V and comparing it. You would note that when I originally commented I had accepted the possibility that the demo sounds were created to be more generic because they were trying to demonstrate that the synthi wasn't just for silly noises.

"You are totally biased in your judgement, and these statements prove that. Biased as you are, any tests coming from you would be regarded by me with a grain of salt (or more)"

Actually I genuinely expected the Arturia effort to be better seeing as they had taken the trouble to borrow various synthis while building the emulation. You would probably expect me to be biased given Arturia's treatment of Robin Wood - that's one reason why I provided audio samples as asked.

I don't really mind if you take my opinion with a grain of salt, it's just that, my opinion.

[ChamomileShark]

accidental double post

[fmr]

Re Arturia's business practices, read the comments from "papz" on the thread below. I have a more detail on it but Arturia don't come out of it well. I note there may also be legal action so I don't want to reveal that right now. But it was me that alerted Robin Wood re the trademarking following a post on KvR mentioning it.

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... c&start=75

I'm not going more into what Robin was and is doing. I like that Synthis are still being built, but I remember that, like 30 years ago, the only place where I could find anything related to EMS was in Germany (EMS Rehberg), where I even bought a Vocoder for the college studio I was helping to assemble. There were absolutely NO SYNTHIS on the market. So, saying that Robin has been producing Synthis since the demise of EMS is simply NOT TRUE.

What I want to say is that all stories have two versions (at least). I will not even comment on what happened with Emilie since it doesn't concern me or this thread. I have my own opinion about it, and you are free to have yours. Mine isn't as black and white as yours, apparently.

What I have to say about what is in the thread you pointed me to is that I just read the statements of ONE part. Since I wasn't there, I can't say how much of that is true, and how much is just a personal opinion and point of view of someone which clearly is not in the best mood towards Arturia. But life already taught me that, in a divorce, each part feels it has the reason on its side, and the truth is that usually the reason, the guilt, and the responsibilities have to be shared among parts.

Besides, you even don't have any statement from Robin, only a personal opinion of a third party. I sincerely would have been happy to have everyone on board, and I believe Arturia would also, but sometimes people act as if they are not interested, and are there just to boycott plans. I don't know if it was the case here, but clearly, you don't either.

And you already decided in your mind that Synthi V is to be disliked, and isn't worth your attention. Anything else you do will only be to reinforce that state of mind.

[ChamomileShark]

From Graham Hinton, their service manager "After EMS(London) folded in 1979 the assets were bought by Datanomics, a company that made rocking hospital beds [sic.]. From 1980 to 1984 a small number of VCS3s, Synthi AKSs and Vocoders were made and a new synthesizer was developed, the DataSynthi. This was essentially a VCS3 type monophonic keyboard using Curtis ICs with a programmable patch matrix and it was never produced. They also redesigned all the circuitry of the Synthi 100 and then sold just one to a studio in Spain.

After the honeymoon, Datanomics realised that they were not destined to become commercial synthesizer manufacturers and EMS was sold again. The next owner was composer Edward Williams, a long term EMS user and enthusiast, with the soundtracks of the famous "Life on Earth" documentary series to his credit. The Soundbeam and several upgrades to the Vocoders were made during this period.

In April 1995 Robin Wood aquired the full rights of EMS after working for all incarnations continuously since 1970. Synthi As, VCS3s and Vocoders are still being produced to the original or modified specifications."

In the mid 90s they opened an infamous wait list but "full scale" production didn't start until 2013(?)

Besides, you even don't have any statement from Robin, only a personal opinion of a third party. I sincerely would have been happy to have everyone on board, and I believe Arturia would also, but sometimes people act as if they are not interested, and would just boycott plans. I don't know if it was the case here, but clearly, you don't either.

And you already decided in your mind that Synthi V is to be disliked, and isn't worth your attention. Anything else you do will only be to reinforce that state of mind.

I'm not a fan of batting stuff back and forth - I'm sure we have better things to do. But...

I tend to be very circumspect with what I say, especially as there is a possibility of legal action. I don't like breaking confidences and I've signed enough NDAs etc to be very reserved in what I say. So when you say "you don't have a statement from Robin" and I've already said I have contacted him, you might interpret that as I did get a reply but I'm simply not going to share it. Similarly I didn't copy or attribute comments about what happened - I pointed people to what someone who was involved has made public. And again you might think that he has also been careful in what he says.

The term I used was "disengenuous" and I think I'll stick with that.

I've not decided the Synthi V "is to be disliked". I said to me it sounds generic but I have said in this thread, if people think it sounds good, buy it for that. It doesn't sound bad, it simply doesn't sound to me, as an owner of a Synthi, in the demos they have provided, like a Synthi. In the same way I have the CMI V and Synclavier V - I'm sure owners will tell me they don't sound like those machines and I will fully accept it. I bought the CMI V because I quite fancied playing around with the Fairlight sample library and fiddling with my own samples in a Fairlight inspired sample environment. I bought the Synclavier because I liked the pad sounds in their audio demos.

And perhaps we can leave it there?

[starflakeprj]

It's 2019, how can you expect people reading so much text? Short version please?

Anyway, if Arturia has trademarked Synthi, what is really the problem? Then they have all rights to release s product called Synthi V?

[ChamomileShark]

It's 2019, how can you expect people reading so much text? Short version please?

Very short version.

Synthis are made by EMS and have been for decades. "Synthi" had not been trademarked but then people didn't generally think that this sort of thing was possible when the company started in 1969.

Arturia trademarked "Synthi" for both software and hardware without EMS's permission.

[fmr]

Anyway, if Arturia has trademarked Synthi, what is really the problem? Then they have all rights to release s product called Synthi V?

I'll sum it up for you. He owns one or two Synthis that he bought from that Robin guy, and he likes the fact that he is still around. However, this probably feels uncertain to him.

So, he wanted that the current builder of hardware Synthis (Robin) would take some profit from the fact that Arturia was releasing a Synthi emulation. Apparently, that didn't happen (I don't know what happened or not), and he is angry about it

[starflakeprj]

Anyway, if Arturia has trademarked Synthi, what is really the problem? Then they have all rights to release s product called Synthi V?

I'll sum it up for you. He owns one or two Synthis that he bought from that Robin guy, and he likes the fact that he is still around. However, this probably feels uncertain for him.

So, he wanted that the current builder of hardware Synthis (Robin) would take some profit from the fact that Arturia was releasing a Synthi emulation. Apparently, that didn't happen (I don't know what happened or not), and he is angry about it

Thanks, short and concise

Arturia seem to have the legal rights to the name, as the name was obviously free when Arturia applied for it. Why didn't this Robin not register the name if it was that important, and has he even said anything in this matter?

[fmr]

Arturia seem to have the legal rights to the name, as the name was obviously free when Arturia applied for it. Why didn't this Robin not register the name if it was that important, and has he even said anything in this matter?

Again, I totally ignore what happened. At some point, believing in what ChamomileShark wrote himself, Robin thought about opposing to the registration and start a legal battle, but they may have reached an agreement in the meanwhile. Either that, or he simply gave up, concluding that a legal battle would be too costly and uncertain for him.