Is it possible not to laugh when someone says calls them self a "producer"?

[jancivil]

I sez: If you actually make your primary living income from it you can lay claim to it. Otherwise, if forced to define what you 'are' by what you 'do', be real. You are a shelf-stocker / barista / broom pusher / telecom mogul. You are permitted to add 'and I make music on the side' (assuming you have filled the proper forms and submitted them to my authority and waited patiently for your permit).

This. 100%.

Van Gogh was just a bum by this argument
0%

100% on arrogant ignorance

[Mushy Mushy]

I sez: If you actually make your primary living income from it you can lay claim to it. Otherwise, if forced to define what you 'are' by what you 'do', be real. You are a shelf-stocker / barista / broom pusher / telecom mogul. You are permitted to add 'and I make music on the side' (assuming you have filled the proper forms and submitted them to my authority and waited patiently for your permit).

This. 100%.

Van Gogh was just a bum by this argument
0%

100% on arrogant ignorance

Subsequent arguments made me rethink this

[jancivil]

sorry, I'm just in no mood

the other side of the coin is there are people making bags of money with 'their music' who I would never consider a musician.

professional is fine by me, so is prostitution

[telecode]

As I stated in many posts in past, the term "producer" changed with the collapse of the old music industry.

The one that's been growing constantly since 2012, and makes about as much now per annum as it did in the 70's?

I don't believe the Internet media hype. Nobody I know buys music. And I don't think I live in a poor city or poor neighborhood. My kids don't buy music. The friends of my kids don't buy music. My neighbors kids don't by music. My neighbors don't buy music. My parents don't but music. As a matter of fact in my direct geographic region, I might be the only one I know who actually pays for Spotify premium. Everyone else uses Youtube and streams with ads for free and doens't give two hoots about ads or quality. The last time I recall anyone in my family buying music was when the kids were really little and you bought them Wiggles or Disney Soundtracks or a Taylor Swift o Katy Parry CD.

Compare this to when I was a late teen and young person and I and everyone I knew were going to record stores easily blowing $50 to $100 per week on CD's and tapes. The new music industry may be making as much money as they did in the 70s, but they aren't making it from selling music. That I am sure of.

[Mushy Mushy]

^ Well meet your first. I buy music and often multiple times. For example I bought the latest Devin Townsend at least 12 times. All the vinyl colours and the iTunes version.

I also bought 4 copies of his 3 vinyl box sets, etc.

Every single song, TV show, movie on my devices is purchased.

Plus the fact the aforementioned records sold out within minutes tells my I’m not alone. The same with the latest Shpongle record. Even at £150 it sold out pretty quickly.

[rp314]

To me it's mostly tinsel town's fault. And even great Directors who generally understood the need for investors to make some money (Billy Wilder, for example) usually tried to get out from under by eventually producing their own films. The lucky ones did well, Hitchcock with Psycho, for example, while some others like Kurosawa were less successful.

Not every producer is an a-hole but the source of great artistic work is still the same, in my oh-so-humble opinion, which is probably why smart producers are always on the look out for true undiscovered talent (the part of the formula that banks can't lend you).

[Bombadil]

I also buy my own music. I like hearing the music as it is supposed to be heard. Since my tastes are limited, and is mostly rooted in 60's and 70's rock/folk, I have pretty much all that I want. When I buy something, it is usually to fill gaps in my collection from that era. I've become my parents in that way.

When I want something different, my wife has an excellent collection of classical music, which is where I go when I don't want singing.

People can call themselves whatever they want. Doesn't mean I have to take them seriously. If someone tells me they're a 'producer,' then the obvious question is, 'what have you produced?'

[telecode]

^ Well meet your first. I buy music and often multiple times. For example I bought the latest Devin Townsend at least 12 times. All the vinyl colours and the iTunes version.

I also bought 4 copies of his 3 vinyl box sets, etc.

Every single song, TV show, movie on my devices is purchased.

Plus the fact the aforementioned records sold out within minutes tells my I’m not alone. The same with the latest Shpongle record. Even at £150 it sold out pretty quickly.

Just curious, what generation are you roughly?

My kid is in high school and all his buddies and him are FL Studio producers. So I sometimes hang out with them to talk music and discover what the new hip styles of music are and we talk synths and VSTs. (I am defiantly a bigger fan of their artists than they are of the ones I like.) Anyway, none of one them buy any of the releases of the artists they are fans of that that share in common. They just stream and have listening parties for the new releases of their fav artists on Spotify or YT or Discord. The only thing I have seen them buy have been t-shirts and phones cases. And they pay for tix to see the live shows.

[Dasheesh]

To be honest, i consider most of today's music produced.

[telecode]

I also buy my own music. I like hearing the music as it is supposed to be heard. Since my tastes are limited, and is mostly rooted in 60's and 70's rock/folk, I have pretty much all that I want. When I buy something, it is usually to fill gaps in my collection from that era. I've become my parents in that way.

When I want something different, my wife has an excellent collection of classical music, which is where I go when I don't want singing.

People can call themselves whatever they want. Doesn't mean I have to take them seriously. If someone tells me they're a 'producer,' then the obvious question is, 'what have you produced?'

I don't buy new releases or new artists releases. I just stream them. The only thing I buy is Cherry Red Records releases of catalog releases. Mostly because I like collecting the physical CD's of some of the artists they focus on. I am a big Funk and R&B fan. But even my wife bashes me about it sometimes. Last year when I went a little crazy with the packages she goes, "WTF is wrong with you? Are you going through some mid life crisis? No one buys CD's anymore."

https://www.cherryred.co.uk/

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Same term applies, doesn't it?
If you're a player, then you can suffix with musician.

I’m saying the majority of EDM artists aren’t musicians because they can’t play. But they do pull together tracks (not songs) so they’re producers.

They might not be instrumentalists, but even people who exclusively use piano-rolls or qwerty keyboards (Renoise) can be musicians

[Hardock]

hm... what is the correct term for a guy with a daw and a boatload of plugins...?

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

hm... what is the correct term for a guy with a daw and a boatload of plugins...?

Depends. What does he do with them?

[Hink]

Quint?

edit: nm, probably need a bigger boat

[telecode]

Same term applies, doesn't it?
If you're a player, then you can suffix with musician.

I’m saying the majority of EDM artists aren’t musicians because they can’t play. But they do pull together tracks (not songs) so they’re producers.

They might not be instrumentalists, but even people who exclusively use piano-rolls or qwerty keyboards (Renoise) can be musicians

Hah, that's a little too far off the scale, even for me. To claim you are a musician would, or should, imply you can play an instrument and you have some understanding of musical concepts. Using piano rolls and/or something like EZ keys to make tracks would not make me think you are a musician.

Even in the early days of punk rock , late 70s, where legend has it clubs were full of bands of whom members didn't have a clue how to tune their instruments, they were still banging away at guitars, basses and drums and making music in their own particular way in order to make a social or political statement. Sid Vicious was a shit bass player compared to Jaco Pastorius, but he still played "a bass".