Roland JV-1080 finally, as virtual instrument!

[beely]

Thanks - yep, getting my 5080 patches into the plugin is a key goal for me too...

[sinemotor]

Hi Beely. Thank you for your dedication!

Once that's working, I'll have a good idea of the data and can then start working on adding in the 1080 translation. I don't have a JV-1080, so when the time comes, I'll probably ask from help from a few people along the way...

Do you mean the JV-1080 plugin here ? if so I can help you.


On axial.roland there are XV-5080 Presets Bank A-G for the Juno DS (.jxl files for the Juno DS Librarian software). This synth appears to have to same 78 MFX and in the same order as the JV-1080 VST. Though I don't know if this can help your work in any way, like if it's possible to extract Patch data directly from the .jxl files.

[beely]

Thanks - I have an XV-5080 and the plugin of course, but what I meant was I don't have a real JV-1080 hardware module to compare how the JV-1080 patches translate to the plugin, to correct for anything that doesn't sound as it should, or to make alternative arrangements for things that aren't quite the same. But I'll cross that bridge when I get there...

And the format of the plugin is fine, and the format of the sysex dumps of the hardware are mostly fine, it's just the MFX parameters in the sysex spec of the hardware that are undocumented, which is why I have to reverse them... Anyway, it's underway, so it will just take a bit of time.

[RobGee]

Just a quick update:

Ok, I'm (finally!) back to looking at the conversion tool, and getting back to speed with where I was - and that was translating the FX parameters, which as I remember was a bit of a pain, and one reason I had to put it down to do other things...

The plugin has a nice XML file describing the layout of all the MFX/Chorus/Reverb parameters, which is the target format, but the 5080/Fantom spec *does not* list the address mappings for the individual FX parameters at all - and from what I can see they aren't in any reasonable/sensible order - not in the layout as they appear on screen, or the layout they are listed in the FX reference. So I have to reverse engineer all the parameters of all the FX types, which is a bit painful.

I'm just building some utilities to help with this, and I'll be mapping the FX as my current task. It basically means saving patches where you change one parameter at a time, dumping the patches (which is 9 sysex blocks per patch), split up the dump to just the block I'm interested in, and compare to see which bytes changed, and slowly map out the order of the parameters for each FX type, and add that info to the convertor so it reorders the various source parameters appropriately into the layout the plugin expects.

Just as a refresher, the basic plan is to get XV5080/Fantom import working first, as that requires the least translation effort (the plugin basically contains pretty much all of the necessary features.) From memory I think the patch data conversion is basically OK (but I haven't checked back on the status of that yet), and the FX is the main task here.

Once that's working, I'll have a good idea of the data and can then start working on adding in the 1080 translation. I don't have a JV-1080, so when the time comes, I'll probably ask from help from a few people along the way...

I will report back on progress as I go, so in the meantime, please don't ask me how I'm getting along, thanks.

Awesome stuff

[beely]

I'm making progress on this - I'm still reverse-engineering and mapping out all the MFX parameters, I have most of them done (plus the chorus and reverb blocks) but through an assorted grab bag of workflow improvements, automation scripting, and custom command line utilities things have sped up a lot and I can map out an MFX block into a nicely sorted ordered and named parameter list in a few minutes (rather than an hour or so manually!), without too much manual work, and without requiring the hardware...

So hopefully should get the mfx stage done and working this week...

[carla]

[MFXxx]

I'm making progress on this - I'm still reverse-engineering and mapping out all the MFX parameters, I have most of them done (plus the chorus and reverb blocks) but through an assorted grab bag of workflow improvements, automation scripting, and custom command line utilities things have sped up a lot and I can map out an MFX block into a nicely sorted ordered and named parameter list in a few minutes (rather than an hour or so manually!), without too much manual work, and without requiring the hardware...

So hopefully should get the mfx stage done and working this week...

Baited breath for your hardwork and outcome

[beely]

So, I've rebuilt all the MFX conversion stuff, reverse engineered most of the XV MFX parameter order (and it was a really good job I did this, as it was really necessary) and have a lot of that stuff working, the various MFX's being translated into target ones, parameters being reordered/translated per MFX as necessary etc.

There are still details and things to do (not much point going into the minute details), but I think my game plan now is to not keep ploughing through the XV MFX exhaustively for weeks getting everything as good as it can be (which is very tedious) - I'm going to run the various XV banks I need to convert through (basically, the XV5080 and Fantom presets not in the plugin, and some of my own patches) and check those for the MFX conversion results, make any necessary tweaks, and get those banks converted properly and the MFX's used for those patches all good.

The remaining XV/Fantom etc MFX's I can always check/test and improve later as the convertor develops - but I think for XV conversion, the main goals are getting the rest of the XV banks properly across for now, and then moving on to getting the JV conversion happening, which is what most people are more interested in.

[beely]

It seems there is another conversion tool here:
https://www.python-blue.com/blog/sound- ... conversion

I haven't tried it, but it's supposed to convert XV5080 syx files to the plugin format. I had a quick look at the code, I can't see how it would ever make a meaningful translation - for example, the author is mapping the source MFX number into the destination MFX number, and assuming all the parameters stay the same and require no conversion, which is not the case. The (undocumented) MFX parameters are not the same as the plugin at all, apart from a small number of MFX's.

He's right though that the XV5080/Fantom sysex format is very close in layout to the plugin bin files (though not identical, and the FX blocks are stored entirely separately than the way they are stored in the SYX files).

The JV conversion will require a bit more translating than the XV ones (which is the reason I started with the XV stuff first) - both in terms of waveforms, possibly modulators and certainly the FX, (and maybe other things need tweaking like filter settings and so on) but as I've built a conversion engine that will support this, and spent the time figuring out the MFX stuff, I can try and do the most accurate translations possible, and where things differ due to the plugin handling things differently, I can at least warn of this and make meaningful substitutions to get as close as possible to the intended patch. At least, that's the plan.

In any case, it's worth mentioning, perhaps it's useful to some... ymmv

[sinemotor]

That's interesting!

Just curious, when you say Fantom do you mean XV patches made for the Fantom or the factory Fantom patches ?

[beely]

I have the factory Fantom preset banks as XV-5080 banks (the Fantom spec is more or less the same as the XV5080), so the main stuff to convert is the XV5080 preset and Fantom preset banks that aren't in the plugin...

[sinemotor]

I have the factory Fantom preset banks as XV-5080 banks (the Fantom spec is more or less the same as the XV5080), so the main stuff to convert is the XV5080 preset and Fantom preset banks that aren't in the plugin...

ah cool I didn't know that. I thought Fantom were using different waveforms. But it makes sense since I've seen same patches in XV/Fantom/Juno DS etc.

[sinemotor]

delete

[beely]

ah cool I didn't know that. I thought Fantom were using different waveforms. But it makes sense since I've seen same patches in XV/Fantom/Juno DS etc.

Fantom has the XV5080 engine inside it. It also has the newer Supernatural engine, which isn't obviously supported by the plugin. But it came with a bank of XV-engine presets, so it's another 128 patches of Roland rompler goodness worth having...

[sinemotor]

ah cool I didn't know that. I thought Fantom were using different waveforms. But it makes sense since I've seen same patches in XV/Fantom/Juno DS etc.

Fantom has the XV5080 engine inside it. It also has the newer Supernatural engine, which isn't obviously supported by the plugin. But it came with a bank of XV-engine presets, so it's another 128 patches of Roland rompler goodness worth having...

ah you were talking about the first Fantom (FA-76, right?). It's a bit confusing since there are multiple versions. I was thinking of the Fantom X and G which are a bit different too and share the same MFXs as the JV-1080 plugin for example.