Are 5 or 6 microphone positions overkill and also wasting disc space?
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- KVRian
- 1116 posts since 6 Jul, 2009
That really depends upon what sounds you are recording and for what application. It also depends upon whether you are trying to color the sound via the microphone or trying to get a neutral recording. Or how much room vs source sound you are looking to pick up.
IE... not enough info provided.
IE... not enough info provided.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2435 posts since 10 Jan, 2018
I thought you'd be happy with one position based on your minimalist reply which adds little really, like some mic positions!
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2435 posts since 10 Jan, 2018
It's deliberately an open question so open to any feedback.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
might be if done poorly, but it is *the* way to stage a production realistically.
One thing I'm using looks like this: I wouldn't waste 6 mics on a guitar/amp setup. This is six string sections. what is that, 11 mics. No back, no 'high', no surround. Now you're taking up space I don't really have.
MIR Pro uses a lot of resources to get viably placed orchestra seating.
One thing I'm using looks like this: I wouldn't waste 6 mics on a guitar/amp setup. This is six string sections. what is that, 11 mics. No back, no 'high', no surround. Now you're taking up space I don't really have.
MIR Pro uses a lot of resources to get viably placed orchestra seating.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
The goalpost is down to a personal preference, is just an opinion so in terms of "overkill and also..." per se, a flat no.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
In a virtual instrument situation, you don't really have 'set up a stereo X/Y pair and record the band and get it right & without all that', there's something to be said for that, but... the question suggests orchestral sample libraries, and in my experience I'm using them. OTOH it's part of why I don't gravitate to the original Spitfire because of all the baked-in room; and all it's their approach with not a lot of flexibility.
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- KVRAF
- 13135 posts since 7 May, 2006 from Southern California
If I am recording something, where I can only capture the performance in one shot and I don't have a lot of time for messing with mic placement, then 6 sources is not too many. I may only use one or two in the end but at least I have options.
If I have time to get mic placement "right", I may only use one mic or I may use more. If it's a solo instrument, I might use three or four mics but if it's only for part of an already dense mix, then I probably won't bother with more than two (and if I use two it's probably in a stereo config).
It also depends on the instrument/playing style. If a drum kit, 6 might be too few. On a piano, 6 might be enough, if the player is doing stuff over the whole range of the keys but overkill if they are focused on a small range of keys. A guitar amp? I rarely use more than three... in my own music I frequently only use one mic on the amp cabinet.
If your primary concern is disk space... get more disk space. If you are having trouble with phase alignment with more than one mic'd source, do more experiments when you aren't working on a session. You'll eventually develop a intuitive sense of the spatial/phase relationships between mics. Preference is one thing, experience is another.
If I have time to get mic placement "right", I may only use one mic or I may use more. If it's a solo instrument, I might use three or four mics but if it's only for part of an already dense mix, then I probably won't bother with more than two (and if I use two it's probably in a stereo config).
It also depends on the instrument/playing style. If a drum kit, 6 might be too few. On a piano, 6 might be enough, if the player is doing stuff over the whole range of the keys but overkill if they are focused on a small range of keys. A guitar amp? I rarely use more than three... in my own music I frequently only use one mic on the amp cabinet.
If your primary concern is disk space... get more disk space. If you are having trouble with phase alignment with more than one mic'd source, do more experiments when you aren't working on a session. You'll eventually develop a intuitive sense of the spatial/phase relationships between mics. Preference is one thing, experience is another.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
It depends. If I want to get some illusion of depth I may have two similar if not self-same sections, one with a tree on and the other with it off, or another admixture.agharta wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 10:35 pm So how many mic positions are you all typically using when 6 or so are available?
I'm not suggesting 1 is enough but 6 seems a lot to me.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
6 for 'vlns 1' is a lot. 1 for each desk, 3 desks, 4, vlns 1 & 2 vlas 1&2 and then celli and bassi is 6 already and we're not trying for late reflections yet. Or the middle of the room even.
Virtual orchestra, well, it's not like you will set up an X/Y cardioid pair just so, and then one facing the other way for the back of the hall and you've captured everybody's location, and out of a certain experience you bring a certain artistry to bear with the basic setups.
You're trusting that a developer's choices are everything. It might be something you'll never notice, to deal with a virtual ambience, particularly when it's not all that exposed. But I worry about the depth. That said, quite a bit of my concern is with the convolution reverb and control over how much reflection and how diffuse, and then near vs wide decorrelation.
Virtual orchestra, well, it's not like you will set up an X/Y cardioid pair just so, and then one facing the other way for the back of the hall and you've captured everybody's location, and out of a certain experience you bring a certain artistry to bear with the basic setups.
You're trusting that a developer's choices are everything. It might be something you'll never notice, to deal with a virtual ambience, particularly when it's not all that exposed. But I worry about the depth. That said, quite a bit of my concern is with the convolution reverb and control over how much reflection and how diffuse, and then near vs wide decorrelation.
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- KVRAF
- 2212 posts since 20 Sep, 2013 from Poland
If you want to sound like an orchestra in a concert hall or on a soundstage, 3 seems nice, with 3 stereo positions of course adding up to at least 6 mics, possibly more if we're talking desk/spot mics and Decca trees. For pop music, though, it kinda is a waste for me - I'll often end up using just close or close/spot mics, except for studio-recorded strings where the more distant mics are still not too wet and work out nicely.
That's talking about orchestral stuff, of course. Drums are their own thing. There you'll want overheads for everything, and at the very least a kick and a snare mic. Possibly also a snare bottom, kick in, close mics on the toms, close hi-hat, a room mic or three, extra snare top mics for choice etc. I ended up recording a "real" drum kit being actually played (not single hits for samples) with 11 mics last time I got dragged into that, though the floor tom mic is definitely going to go unused, cause that thing never got hit.
Here's a funny video about that - getting a good drum sound with one mic.
Basically, set up a bunch of mics in front of the kit, then pick the one that sounds best, and that's your one. When going for that kind of minimalism, having a lot of mics and positions to choose from is crucial.
And if you really want to sound like Motown then you'd need drums, amps and horns leaking into each other's mics, all in the same room. Nobody's really sampled horns and guitars like that yet.
That's talking about orchestral stuff, of course. Drums are their own thing. There you'll want overheads for everything, and at the very least a kick and a snare mic. Possibly also a snare bottom, kick in, close mics on the toms, close hi-hat, a room mic or three, extra snare top mics for choice etc. I ended up recording a "real" drum kit being actually played (not single hits for samples) with 11 mics last time I got dragged into that, though the floor tom mic is definitely going to go unused, cause that thing never got hit.
Here's a funny video about that - getting a good drum sound with one mic.
Basically, set up a bunch of mics in front of the kit, then pick the one that sounds best, and that's your one. When going for that kind of minimalism, having a lot of mics and positions to choose from is crucial.
And if you really want to sound like Motown then you'd need drums, amps and horns leaking into each other's mics, all in the same room. Nobody's really sampled horns and guitars like that yet.
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- addled muppet weed
- 111311 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
we have terabyte hard drives now.
