With Bitwig´s new Grid approach, is there any good reason to buy and use other 3rd party modular platforms?

[enCiphered]

I have enough virtual softsynths to work with but still no modular platform like Reaktor Blocks, Softube Modular, Voltage Modular etc..
Now that Bitwig´s Grid is in the beta stage it feels very easy and innovative to build own synhts and effects to explore new sound design territories.
Yesterday I got a mail from Plugin Boutique with a great discount offer for Cherry Audio´s Voltage Modular. I was on the fence about buying it for a long time and I´ve read only good things about it.
I know that Reaktor has a ton more to offer than just Blocks and I´m also aware of the great audio quality of Softube Modular.

So I wonder now, using Bitwig´s Grid, is there any good reason to use additional 3rd party modular platforms?

[secretkillerofnames]

You're probably talking about the Voltage Modular Ignite deal.
Be aware that it is the basic starter package that doesn't include a lot of modules.
There is a comparison chart here.

[Elektronisch]

Bitwig Grid is not a vst, its integrated in to a DAW so if you arent using Bitwig you will have to change your DAW and probably workflow. If you are using Bitwig, you can wait till grid will be out. Also you can just demo all the modular softsynths and decide, they might be not even for you...(certainly not for me, semi modular is ok tho). Keep ind mind most of modulars are monophonic except for Voltage modular (and probably grid).

[enCiphered]

You're probably talking about the Voltage Modular Ignite deal.
Be aware that it is the basic starter package that doesn't include a lot of modules.
There is a comparison chart here.

You´re right. It´s for the ignite deal, thanks for pointing that out!

[enCiphered]

Bitwig Grid is not a vst, its integrated in to a DAW so if you arent using Bitwig you will have to change your DAW and probably workflow. If you are using Bitwig, you can wait till grid will be out. Also you can just demo all the modular softsynths and decide, they might be not even for you...(certainly not for me, semi modular is ok tho). Keep ind mind most of modulars are monophonic except for Voltage modular (and probably grid).

Good points, thanks. I´m using different DAWs, the workflow isn´t really a problem. Monophony is
I mean, I don´t see the point being restricted to only creating monophonic synths and sounds.

[secretkillerofnames]

Voltage Modular is pretty good but you will want the Core version. Reaktor is absolutely worth getting on a sale - I wouldn't concern yourself too much with the "Racks" concept as it currently seems a bit restrictive and needs to develop. There is plenty in the 6.0 blocks and ensembles to keep you busy for years.
But how far can you push The Grid before you need something else?

[pdxindy]

So I wonder now, using Bitwig´s Grid, is there any good reason to use additional 3rd party modular platforms?

Depends on the person and their use.

For me, one hour after I started using the Grid yesterday, all interest in other software modulars ended right there. Bitwig's Grid is so easy to use. Polyphony is automatic. Just set voice count and done. So is unison (voice stacking up to 5 voices). MPE is automatic and just works.The Grid smartly auto-wires. Drag in a module between two wired modules and it gets auto-wired. All connections are stereo.

For any standard modulators (LFO's, Env's, Parameter Sequencers, Etc.) there is no need for wiring at all. For example, simply drop an LFO anywhere on the Grid and click the mod 'arrow'. Then drag a parameter knob (just like regular Bitwig modulation) to set mod depth. You can modulate as many parameters as you want without needing to do any wiring at all.

Select any module, and the inspector shows scopes for all active inputs and outputs (whether that is audio or modulation which are treated the same). Select an LFO or Env module and all mod targets are shown in the inspector and depths can be edited.

Bitwig's Sampler Osc is a Grid module. So you can work with full multi-samples in the Grid and also do wavetables and granular. So you can make all sorts of unique samplers. Want to bitcrush the sample before it goes to the filter? Easy. FM the sample? Yup. Use 2 Sample Osc's? Sure. I always wanted 2 filters in the Sampler. Made that in a few minutes yesterday and set polyphony to 12 for a pad sound. No manual and didn't even look at the included examples. Just started from init and required very little wiring.

It uses the same excellent preset system as Bitwig.

I think the sound quality is quite good, though it is not as classic subtractive 'analog' sounding as Softube or some of the Reaktor Blocks. Doesn't matter to me because the workflow is so good I'll actually use it. I did more specific constructions with the Grid yesterday than I've ever done with Reaktor Blocks (M4L was always so arcane I never did a thing with it) due to the polyphony, MPE, full screen workspace and easy workflow. Yesterday I made a synth with a sample for the attack sound and a couple regular osc's for the body of the sound. I started with the idea and had it working in like 5 minutes (on day 1) and then was playing the sound with polyphony and MPE on my Linnstrument.

[gentleclockdivider]

If at some point you decide to built your own modules , bitwig will not provide that .
The modules are high level macros's , and you're dependent on the bitwig team for the release of new modules
Or you could choose
-reaktor and learn core
-vcv rack , cherry audio and learn c++

[pdxindy]

If at some point you decide to built your own modules , bitwig will not provide that .
The modules are high level macros's , and you're dependent on the bitwig team for the release of new modules
Or you could choose
-reaktor and learn core
-vcv rack , cherry audio and learn c++

Yup... that is a good reason to choose a different platform.

For people like me, who have zero interest in becoming a coder, the Grid workflow and functionality is very much a deciding factor.

Of course I already use Bitwig and the Grid is not available to use inside other DAW's.

Reaktors new Racks are a significant workflow improvement over Blocks... but still not poly, still has a small GUI, no MPE or easy voice stacking and takes a good bit more wiring.

Bitwig's Grid has 147 modules as of now.

[ghettosynth]

Grid seems very cool and a step in the right direction. Pdxindy's points seem spot on. As a longtime Reaktor user I suggest that whether you need more than that is really a function of what your expectations are with respect to working in a modular environment.

For me, gentleclockdivider's points nail it, grid would not be enough for what I get out of Reaktor. Also, the devil is in the details here, if you can't implement your own modules then you are limited to what's provided so you have to be satisfied with that. There's an entire history of people complaining about the sound of Reaktor and this is based on the old primary modules. You have the same potential limitation here.

Don't get me wrong, it looks super cool and has me intrigued about Bitwig again. Particularly, as pdxindy points out, with respect to building hybrid sample based instruments quickly. If you have no experience with software modulars though, I would definitely explore all of the cool free tools available today before spending money.

[pdxindy]

Couple other Grid limitations.

There is no Midi Grid device yet. Bitwig said that will come, but not with 3.0. So building step sequencers and arpeggiators is not there yet except through some hacked together means.

There are no feedback loops allowed. So you cannot feed the filter output back into itself. I find that limitation disappointing. Feedback is cool!

[stamp]

There are no feedback loops allowed.

Wrong!
viewtopic.php?f=259&t=524915

[pdxindy]

There are no feedback loops allowed.

Wrong!
viewtopic.php?f=259&t=524915

Yeah, that currently works but may not be the full 4x audio rate... and it's possible Bitwig will get rid of it... I don't think it cannot be depended on.

[pdxindy]

For me, gentleclockdivider's points nail it, grid would not be enough for what I get out of Reaktor. Also, the devil is in the details here, if you can't implement your own modules then you are limited to what's provided so you have to be satisfied with that. There's an entire history of people complaining about the sound of Reaktor and this is based on the old primary modules. You have the same potential limitation here.

Yeah, for people who want to build their own modules, Bitwig's Grid is not going to satisfy.

For people who have MPE controllers, the Grid is like a no brainer. The sonic range is huge, the sound quality is very good and the control over signals is excellent. You can do all the sorts of stuff possible with Cypher to fine tune the expressiveness.

You can set polyphony from 1 to 64 (not that anyone ever needs that many notes) so you can make pads with long release times and have no voice stealing.

The sound generation modules are very capable. You can build some credible physical modeling instruments, should be able to construct a divide-down osc, etc.

[enCiphered]

Voltage Modular is pretty good but you will want the Core version. Reaktor is absolutely worth getting on a sale - I wouldn't concern yourself too much with the "Racks" concept as it currently seems a bit restrictive and needs to develop. There is plenty in the 6.0 blocks and ensembles to keep you busy for years.
But how far can you push The Grid before you need something else?

Yes, Reaktor is a monster and I have already watched many interesting videos showcasing user library ensembles which are very tempting. I´m pretty sure that all the complete instruments and ensembles would keep me busy for years, not only the blocks and racks.
But judging from the videos I saw about blocks, I´m not quite sure if this is really something for me. It seems much more complicated compared to Bitwig´s Grid.