With Bitwig´s new Grid approach, is there any good reason to buy and use other 3rd party modular platforms?

[enCiphered]

So I wonder now, using Bitwig´s Grid, is there any good reason to use additional 3rd party modular platforms?

Depends on the person and their use.

For me, one hour after I started using the Grid yesterday, all interest in other software modulars ended right there. Bitwig's Grid is so easy to use. Polyphony is automatic. Just set voice count and done. So is unison (voice stacking up to 5 voices). MPE is automatic and just works.The Grid smartly auto-wires. Drag in a module between two wired modules and it gets auto-wired. All connections are stereo.

For any standard modulators (LFO's, Env's, Parameter Sequencers, Etc.) there is no need for wiring at all. For example, simply drop an LFO anywhere on the Grid and click the mod 'arrow'. Then drag a parameter knob (just like regular Bitwig modulation) to set mod depth. You can modulate as many parameters as you want without needing to do any wiring at all.

Select any module, and the inspector shows scopes for all active inputs and outputs (whether that is audio or modulation which are treated the same). Select an LFO or Env module and all mod targets are shown in the inspector and depths can be edited.

Bitwig's Sampler Osc is a Grid module. So you can work with full multi-samples in the Grid and also do wavetables and granular. So you can make all sorts of unique samplers. Want to bitcrush the sample before it goes to the filter? Easy. FM the sample? Yup. Use 2 Sample Osc's? Sure. I always wanted 2 filters in the Sampler. Made that in a few minutes yesterday and set polyphony to 12 for a pad sound. No manual and didn't even look at the included examples. Just started from init and required very little wiring.

It uses the same excellent preset system as Bitwig.

I think the sound quality is quite good, though it is not as classic subtractive 'analog' sounding as Softube or some of the Reaktor Blocks. Doesn't matter to me because the workflow is so good I'll actually use it. I did more specific constructions with the Grid yesterday than I've ever done with Reaktor Blocks (M4L was always so arcane I never did a thing with it) due to the polyphony, MPE, full screen workspace and easy workflow. Yesterday I made a synth with a sample for the attack sound and a couple regular osc's for the body of the sound. I started with the idea and had it working in like 5 minutes (on day 1) and then was playing the sound with polyphony and MPE on my Linnstrument.

Thank you for posting all the details, I really appreciate it.
For me, most important things are sound quality and time efficiency regarding the workflow.

[enCiphered]

If at some point you decide to built your own modules , bitwig will not provide that .
The modules are high level macros's , and you're dependent on the bitwig team for the release of new modules
Or you could choose
-reaktor and learn core
-vcv rack , cherry audio and learn c++

While I´m not at all against scripting, I don´t thing coding is for me. I mean, I want to make music, not programming. Building my own modules would be overkill at the moment. Maybe in 10 years after having mastered the modular basics

[ghettosynth]

If at some point you decide to built your own modules , bitwig will not provide that .
The modules are high level macros's , and you're dependent on the bitwig team for the release of new modules
Or you could choose
-reaktor and learn core
-vcv rack , cherry audio and learn c++

While I´m not at all against scripting, I don´t thing coding is for me. I mean, I want to make music, not programming. Building my own modules would be overkill at the moment. Maybe in 10 years after having mastered the modular basics

What you have to understand, however, is that even if you don't want to build such modules yourself, if an environment doesn't support that capability then other people can't build those modules for you.

From my POV, this is not a replacement for Reaktor or VCV. It's a super cool tool, but, as people have pointed out, whether it can replace other modular environments depends on what your needs are If you need a modular to sound like an analog hardware modular, this might not be the solution "for that." This does seem like an awesome solution for many other kinds of music things.

I'm not suggesting that you go buy Reaktor, BTW, I'm just saying don't kid yourself that all things are equal because someone on the internet likes something. Could Reaktor be easier to use? Yes! Could Bitwig's Grid be more powerful such that it could sound better? Yes! They're not the same, both have made compromises to fit the needs of their respective audiences.

So, when you ask "is this enough or will I need something like Reaktor," you will not be able to dismiss that question by just convincing yourself that you don't want to write code or that some other feature doesn't sound cool at the moment. If you want "sound quality" then the technological choices will impact that and no amount of wishful thinking is going to change that for you.

[pdxindy]

Thank you for posting all the details, I really appreciate it.
For me, most important things are sound quality and time efficiency regarding the workflow.

I'm pleasantly surprised with the sound quality of the Grid. Turns out you can do feedback and I was just experimenting with a filter output passed through a delay and back into the filter input and all sorts of goodness is hitting my ears

I would say Reaktor has an ultimately higher sound quality, but so far the quality of the Grid is satisfying enough for my rather picky ears... and the ease of use of the Grid and the ability to effortlessly modulate and create stuff is so much more meaningful to me because I am actually enjoying using it and already feeling a sense of fluidity... which I've never felt with Reaktor.

I don't dislike Reaktor... it's just too much for me and the workflow impediments are just enough to make me not have a sense of enjoyment. Might be different for someone else. I've had it for years, but I never liked the sound quality of it until Blocks. Blocks are pretty clumsy though. The Racks is an improvement and I think I could finally enjoy using Racks. But now the Grid is here and it suits me needs better.

[ghettosynth]

Can you load your own VSTs inside of Grid?

[pekbro]

Voltage Modular's modules are written in java with a snazzy authoring tool.
...Just sayin

[pdxindy]

What you have to understand, however, is that even if you don't want to build such modules yourself, if an environment doesn't support that capability then other people can't build those modules for you.

Of course different people have different interests... And you and I have always had different views on this subject.

VCV comes with over 800 modules. In the rest of my life I could never become competent with all that. I hear that number and I want nothing to do with it. Same with the Reaktor library. I could spend the next year just looking at all the Reaktor ensembles and available blocks... not actually doing anything with them. It's just so unappealing to me.

The 140+ modules that come with Bitwig's Grid s are already enough that I can create a near endless amount of useful sounds for years to come.

[pekbro]

Can you load your own VSTs inside of Grid?

Doesn't look like it, though there really isnt any reason to do that.

[pdxindy]

If you need a modular to sound like an analog hardware modular, this might not be the solution "for that."

So far I'd agree... it's a bit like Bazille in that it is obviously digital, but sounds really good. The Grid's audio rate modulations seem pretty good (need more time to explore). The Grid can have a pleasing strong sound. I think that it does not saturate like analog hardware.

Of course, no software quite sounds like analog hardware modular, but some gets closer.

[pdxindy]

Can you load your own VSTs inside of Grid?

No...

You can modulate a VST and you can bring the audio from a VST into the Grid... but no VST's inside the Grid itself.

[pekbro]

It's only one nesting level's difference between vst's and the grid anyway.

[pekbro]

I'm pretty bored with the software modulars myself. The grid included, they are cool,
no doubt. Personally, I prefer hardware modular...

[David]

(I love how we love to feature-quibble about things we know we're going to eventually buy anyway:))

[ghettosynth]

Can you load your own VSTs inside of Grid?

Doesn't look like it, though there really isnt any reason to do that.

Well, I might not understand the other ways that you can do this in Bitwig, but, that's what I keep Bidule around for. If you want to, for example, create a shimmer like reverb effect using a particular reverb and a particular pitch shifter.

It's often just a matter of "this plugin has this feature and I don't want to replicate that feature in some other environment, I just want to make use of it in my custom effect."

For that you need the ability to load plugins and the ability to have feedback loops. I wish that Jeff hadn't crippled Synthedit in 64 bit because it's really somewhat ideal for this as you end up creating a custom plugin that loads your existing plugins. Bidule doesn't have the ability to create a nice U/I. MFL does this, but, you can only use those "plugins" inside of Live, and my god Max can be tedious at times.

Mulab/Mux can load plugins and create a usable U/I, but no feedback loops.

So, if Bitwig had that ability to do that quickly, it would be compelling and useful to me. Basically I want to hide all of the structure behind a custom U/I that loads natively in the host. Max for Live does this, but it's painful. You can create a Max patch that loads your existing plugins and modulate the various parameters and hide all of that behind an MFL patch that you can drag and drop into a track.

[pdxindy]

I'm pretty bored with the software modulars myself. The grid included, they are cool,
no doubt. Personally, I prefer hardware modular...

I would prefer hardware modular too. Real things are more enjoyable for me. What I like about the Grid is the easy polyphony and MPE support. If I'm gonna use software, make sure it gives me what hardware modular doesn't have.