KVR Audio

Reefius · Post by **Reefius** » Fri May 10, 2019 4:58 pm

pdxindy wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 4:50 pm
Reefius wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 3:38 pmI stay away from Bitwig
except to come in Bitwig threads and be a dick

Reefius wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 3:38 pmLet's do some math (sales are not counted because almost every DAW is on sale at some point)
Sales do count because they are different on the different pricing models

If a paid Cubase or Live update comes out, you would have to wait for quite some months to get a sale price. With Bitwig, I can purchase an upgrade at a sale price before my current 12 months expires. So I get a sale price and never have a gap, never have to miss having the new features immediately in order to get the sale price. Big difference between those two and one way the Bitwig model is better.

Reefius wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 3:38 pmor buy Ableton Live and update it for over 20 years (at 4 years per major version)
Ableton Live has averaged less than 2 years between paid upgrades over its life.

Reefius wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 3:38 pmEveryone who paid for the Bitwig v2 update when it was released has already paid $340 for v2 (2017 + 2018)
More false information. I paid $270 (as I have stated to you before, but you would rather spread false info than be honest)

Almost every DAW (or DAW update) is on sale at least once a year, that's why it's silly to mix sales prices with regular prices.
So if that's what you need to prove a point, then to me your arguments are completely invalid.

Reefius · Post by **Reefius** » Fri May 10, 2019 5:02 pm

Those who claim Live 8 and 9 were a disaster at release forget one thing: the Bitwig team are ex Ableton employees so they were partly responsible for these disasters.

Quite funny that Ableton Live 10 release was a lot smoother. Not perfect, but definitely no big disaster. I wonder why...

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Fri May 10, 2019 5:12 pm

pdxindy wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 4:55 pm
antic604 wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 4:44 pm
Reefius wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 4:34 pm So now you're comparing Live beta's to official Bitwig updates? Maybe you have a point, because the first three years with Bitwig 1.x seemed like one big beta
No, I'm just saying that in that same time Bitwig is able to release 1-2 point releases, while Ableton still fights with bugs. And it's not like there won't be any when it's finally out. 10 wasn't problem free and 9 was a huge disaster, with people going back to 8.
With Live version 8 Ableton had to make a public statement halting development to focus on stability because users were so pissed off at all the bugs/crashes. They spent more than a year just on bug fixing an already shipped version.

My point in saying that was not to criticize Ableton. I got a lot of good use out of Live and was patient all during that process and they eventually sorted it out. Every DAW maker has had ups and downs and made mistakes. Bitwig for sure went through a lot of initial growing pains. The Devs had to redo some stuff, rethink some choices and it all took longer than they expected.

IMO, last year Bitwig got over the hump. Now the Grid is exceptionally well done and shows what the Devs are capable of. It is to everyones advantage for all DAWs to get better and be effective tools.

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Fri May 10, 2019 5:15 pm

Reefius wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 5:02 pmThose who claim Live 8 and 9 were a disaster at release forget one thing: the Bitwig team are ex Ableton employees so they were partly responsible for these disasters.

What if those disasters happened BECAUSE Bitwig devs who left Ableton were the only competent people there?

Reefius wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 5:02 pmQuite funny that Ableton Live 10 release was a lot smoother. Not perfect, but definitely no big disaster. I wonder why...

Sure, and it took them over 4 years to release it and almost half a year public beta (and God knows how long closed beta before that).

EVERY software has bugs, deal with it. And features that were missing and aren't yet introduced aren't bugs. They're just things that apparently - and you can disagree with that, as per my earlier posts! - are less important for target Bitwig users (like audio comping or some advanced piano-roll editing). Bitwig is working on them, but allocating the work to 4 devs requires setting priorities and making choices. They can't make everyone happy at once.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Fri May 10, 2019 5:33 pm

Reefius makes Eristic arguments just to wind people up, please don't feed the trolls, it makes them feel wanted.

@ Reefius - if you haver any on topic comments about your actual experience with Bitwig 3 Beta I would be happy to read them.

Reefius · Post by **Reefius** » Fri May 10, 2019 6:18 pm

Well, if you think some basic math is an 'Eristic argument' then maybe it's time to go back to school.

So far nobody was able to prove my math is incorrect. Pdxindy gave it a shot but failed by mixing discounted prices with regular prices. It's ofcourse much easier to shout 'troll' when you can't win an argument.

quincy · Post by **quincy** » Fri May 10, 2019 7:02 pm

I didn’t think enjoyment of music production was measured in pounds and pence, or indeed arguments won or lost on forums.

Have a great weekend!

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Fri May 10, 2019 7:04 pm

Reefius wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 6:18 pm Well, if you think some basic math is an 'Eristic argument' then maybe it's time to go back to school.

So far nobody was able to prove my math is incorrect. Pdxindy gave it a shot but failed by mixing discounted prices with regular prices. It's ofcourse much easier to shout 'troll' when you can't win an argument.

Ha! Polarity just posted a video for you.
Perhaps you'll understand it from this way.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Fri May 10, 2019 7:07 pm

Reefius wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 6:18 pm Well, if you think some basic math is an 'Eristic argument' then maybe it's time to go back to school.

So far nobody was able to prove my math is incorrect. Pdxindy gave it a shot but failed by mixing discounted prices with regular prices. It's ofcourse much easier to shout 'troll' when you can't win an argument.

There is no argument, I'm just bored of you cluttering up this thread with irrelevant twaddle. Muted.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Fri May 10, 2019 7:13 pm

SLiC wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 7:07 pm There is no argument, I'm just bored of you cluttering up this thread with irrelevant twaddle. Muted.

If you are gonna reply... excluding the quote is beneficial for others. No reason to expose people to toxic waste

Reefius · Post by **Reefius** » Fri May 10, 2019 8:10 pm

antic604 wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 7:04 pm Ha! Polarity just posted a video for you.
Perhaps you'll understand it from this way.

Why would I care about some random Youtuber's (with a mere 2k subscribers) opinion?

Tell me, if Bitwig is as amazing as you think, why is it that almost nobody is using it?
I watch a lot of Youtube video's from many different people and I always see Pro Tools, Cubase, Logic, Ableton Live, Reaper, Studio One and FL Studio... But almost never Bitwig.
I know Sadowick tried it a few times, but he always quickly ended up using Live again. I guess he encountered the same annoyances I listed earlier

quincy · Post by **quincy** » Fri May 10, 2019 8:28 pm

Most of those guys actually spend their time making music. They’re also interested in spreading knowledge and helping others to make music, and not much concerned with winning pointless arguments with strangers. If you catch my drift.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Fri May 10, 2019 9:22 pm

MPE stuff works very well with the Grid. It is easy to control the output of both Y (timbre) and Z (aftertouch) axis. For example put some slew on attack or release, adjust the curve etc.

I'd say in terms of overall capability, The Grid is the best MPE synth you can buy today.

beater · Post by **beater** » Fri May 10, 2019 10:18 pm

Reefius, you actually make some good points, but why can't you accept people who use bitwig actually enjoy using it? Do you need a hug or something?

I don't like the minimum track height and the payment methods but I still prefer it to live and cubase. It feels quicker and smoother to me. Also, with the latest version there's more fun to be had with it compared to other daws. Each to their own I guess.

Reefius · Post by **Reefius** » Fri May 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Just informing potential customers with facts, not my problem the fanboys can't handle any criticism about their favorite DAW.

Like I said, it's always the same small group of people who keep praising Bitwig like it's pure perfection and they always get super defensive if anyone dares to say something negative about it.
It's like they get paid to promote Bitwig as much as possible