FYI!! Melda SoundFactory ON SALE til JUNE 30

[Greenstorm33]

If there's latency between midi note reception and sound generation that isn't part of the patch and isn't compensated then it's going to throw your synth out of time just like an effect with uncompensated latency will.

[DocSnyder]

But I have a question about this. Some here have criticized MSF for not reporting latency to the host. My question is: is that even required for a synth in the first place? An FX module with latency that is inserted in a DAW track needs to do this so all the tracks line up when mixed together. If DAWs didn't handle this, they'd be useless (or at least restricted to use of no-latency insert modules). But synths come before mixer tracks. Are they required to report latency, and is the host responsible for dealing with it? I have no idea.

Channel left a rim on 4/4, channel right MSF saw with DistortionMB added. Latency reported to the host 0, but audio is clearly off (about 2k samples): https://imgur.com/wKvZ3OZ

This is the result if the synth doesn't report its latency.

[dmbaer]

If there's latency between midi note reception and sound generation that isn't part of the patch and isn't compensated then it's going to throw your synth out of time just like an effect with uncompensated latency will.

That didn't answer my question. The question was: is DAW required to recognize latency in a synth, as opposed to an effect module, and is a sound generator (as opposed to an FX insert module) required to report latency to the host?

[dionenoid]

These are the reactions from Melda on the latency subject :

Latency: Some of the effects are included even if they CAN (or even always do) exhibit latency. In these cases it is IMPOSSIBLE to do what they do without latency, that's just how it is. And the instrument cannot compensate for it. So if you use it, it is usable only as a parallel lane for example, or for stuff with very long attacks, where it doesn't matter. The MultiMode devices are the exact case - they all work in spectral domain and as such the latency is inevitable.

And :

Latency: Well, technology has its limitations. Note that this is more like physical limitation, it will never be possible to do that without latency, so... I'd suggest keeping away from the FX/settings that introduce latency. Note that the plugin cannot report it to the host, long story... So it may only be useful for some "paddy" stuff, that evolves through times and timing is not an issue.

And :

That's not a bug, but an inevitable effect of some modules (rare one though). Instruments cannot be compensated for latency unfortunately, so the only way to use these modules is on a parallel lane of some paddy sounds. I actually originally didn't want to include these modules, but people said otherwise...

[BlueprintInc]

...And the instrument cannot compensate for it...

And :

...Note that the plugin cannot report it to the host, long story...

Interesting, though I wonder why. This is a clear design issue and both are only limitations to MSoundFactory. This has nothing to do with general technical difficulties, as other synths are able to report their latency.

[David]

…
On another issue, I was not implying that only rocket scientists dared plumb the depths of deep sound design in MSF. A neophyte in the ways of Melda can still put together some sophisticated sounds without touching the more advanced features. Likewise, it takes little time to learn the basics of Multiparameters, but they go *so* very deep that few can claim full mastery. A designer who is creating MSF devices for a wide audience and not just himself needs a far more accomplished command of things Melda. But a rookie can still have a blast, create something meaningful and musically useful, and end up feeling very good about the whole thing. Like I said, a degree in rocket science is not a hard and fast requirement.

I heartily agree with this.

I fell hard for MSF's grids, the modal and PModeling-based Sources, the endless uniquely configured FX, the mixers and mergers and infinitely warp-able, modulatable LFO shapes, etc. etc., LONG before I realized how complicated and frustrating it could be to actually UNDERSTAND it:)

And before I'd ever met a MP or an EZ Screen. I worked only in Edit mode saving GUI-less Devices with no presets for many happy weeks.

After all that ever-more jaw-dropping fun, I was totally shocked to finally realize that what was wanted from Device designers was SIMPLE stuff, narrowly focused at making specific, easily categorized sorts of sounds…?! With knobs undemandingly labelled "Timbre" and "Add Dark" and "Character"…huh?!?!?
All to be built with an engine capable of concocting the most complex, versatile, strange, un-heard-of contraptions, with bleeding-edge osc and signal processors…

Still boggles a bit.

But SO grateful that all that weird quirky troublesome POWER is STILL there, no matter what Marketing wants:)

But now that it's MINE, forget all THAT!
LATENCY!?—Man, there's a paradise just over there, and you're talking…latency?

[enCiphered]

...And the instrument cannot compensate for it...

And :

...Note that the plugin cannot report it to the host, long story...

Interesting, though I wonder why. This is a clear design issue and both are only limitations to MSoundFactory. This has nothing to do with general technical difficulties, as other synths are able to report their latency.

[Kalamata Kid]

I am mostly interested in sample manipulation and audio and midi fx.
Ok, I got it. MSF has available all the MXXX modules so the effects is covered. This is Wonderful!
Now for WAV manipulation as in Iris or Form or ganular or slicer or wavetable etc. will I be happy?
Or what will MSF have to offer as a sampler.
Any midi fx?

[rlared]

I am mostly interested in sample manipulation and audio and midi fx.
Ok, I got it. MSF has available all the MXXX modules so the effects is covered. This is Wonderful!
Now for WAV manipulation as in Iris or Form or ganular or slicer or wavetable etc. will I be happy?
Or what will MSF have to offer as a sampler.
Any midi fx?

MSF will please you and even cook you breakfast the next morning.

[David]

I am mostly interested in sample manipulation and audio and midi fx.
Ok, I got it. MSF has available all the MXXX modules so the effects is covered. This is Wonderful!
Now for WAV manipulation as in Iris or Form or ganular or slicer or wavetable etc. will I be happy?
Or what will MSF have to offer as a sampler.
Any midi fx?

Totally with you there…and we can but wait and see. Though with Vojtech's stated ambitions, I have NO fear, and plenty of hope, that the sampling will be…deep and strange:)

And I LOVE the idea that there may one day be Melda-Mad MIDI FX, too, but I've heard nothing about that possibility beyond this less than clear hint from the docs:

MIDI filtering for modules, most likely based on custom expressions

[Kalamata Kid]

I have nine Melda plugins and find them warm and smooth.
They are multi-touch! Fantastic!!!
So I am happy
I am hesitating not because that MSF will not live up to the high Melda standards but because I already have so many plugins and some I have not even ever used. And at $114 need to think about it. So it is MSF or Architect. I can do both but will like feel GAS guilt for a day or two.

[jmalge]

...And the instrument cannot compensate for it...

And :

...Note that the plugin cannot report it to the host, long story...

Interesting, though I wonder why. This is a clear design issue and both are only limitations to MSoundFactory. This has nothing to do with general technical difficulties, as other synths are able to report their latency.

I don't know why either, but I do know it's not hard to set up MSF to produce multiple different latencies in parallel. It's also possible to make those latencies change via modulation (e.g. you can trivially enable/disable a spectral domain effect with a MultiParameter).

So, if I had to guess, I'd say we have an instrument that would have to continuously re-compute and re-report multiple simultaneous latencies to a host that probably can't deal with multiple simultaneous latencies from a single source in the first place.

[gentleclockdivider]

For the f**king life of me I can't believe people are getting on my case over this. blabla bla

In short, this is ridiculous.

For the f**king life of me I can't believe people who don't understand certain effects require a time buffer and introduce latency .

[BlueprintInc]

I don't know why either, but I do know it's not hard to set up MSF to produce multiple different latencies in parallel. It's also possible to make those latencies change via modulation (e.g. you can trivially enable/disable a spectral domain effect with a MultiParameter).

So, if I had to guess, I'd say we have an instrument that would have to continuously re-compute and re-report multiple simultaneous latencies to a host that probably can't deal with multiple simultaneous latencies from a single source in the first place.

Okay. But even then the latency is known at any lane, at any position. It's not different from a DAW processing effects on busses. Melda could report a fixed latency and compensate for it internally whenever such an event like enable/disable occures. But just reporting nothing will introduce a delay on that instrument-track. And as I read it also affects the sound design itself by only being able to use certain effect on certain sounds where it might not stick out that much. Very strange behavior imo.

For the f**king life of me I can't believe people who don't understand certain effects require a time buffer and introduce latency .

I thought it was about the compensation of the latency too which is the bigger problem.

[gentleclockdivider]

Ah well . then I will righfully deserve a slap-back