BlueARP VST Arpeggiator development - let's discuss! (Apple M1 ready, 4K)

[Saffran]

The Surge guys would probably love to know what you come up with.

What am I missing (or you), because the Surge GUI is perfectly scalable on my system (running 1.6 beta though)

They say windows isn't their strongpoint. So when a daw like Cakewalk have problems with scaling they are stumped and can't solve it.
I really think Surge is a fenomenal synth. It's a pity that i have difficulty reading the gui.
PS. Bluearp is a supertool to use with synths like Surge.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Windows has some method to allow developers to flag how the product behaves in relation to Windows internal HDPI scaling. If the plugin is coded to support it, *and the DAW also does,* then a plugin could be designed to automatically scale according to the DPI settings in Windows. I think few plugins actually support this, and only a handful of DAWs do it properly. For example, Cubase only scales properly at 100% or 200%; settings of 125% and 150% don't scale properly.

Other developers work around this entirely by having resizable vector or bitmap based GUI's. The scaling happens within the plugin itself, with some input from the user. Until the whole scaling mess is sorted on Windows, this seems like the way to go. Let users pick their own size.

[maxym.srpl]

In fact there are 2 cases to cover:
1. higher dpi devices (like Retina displays) - those require just higher density of points, straightly defined by a scale set up/provided by operating system.
2. bigger displays (ie 42", 52" etc), often called 4K, with pixel density comparable to FullHD monitors. In fact those are like four FullHD monitors aranged into 2x2 matrix. In those case, scaling by number given by operating system must not be adequate, since main goal of such big monitors is to extend workspace (so no need to clutter it with scaled up GUIs). Scaling setup in Operating system is used rather for comfortable text reading (bigger icons, text in browsers, editors etc).
However because of usual eye-to-monitor distance, some scaling is required anyway, but lower than one provided by operating system.

At the end, programing GUI for VST I wouldn't stick on scaling ration provided by operating system. If possible, I would start with but then allow user to modify scaling ration to own needs.
In my opinion, providing scales like 100, 125, 150, 175 and 200 (maybe 250 since I've heard about 5K Retina monitors) is enough for VST plugins. At least I'm satisfied enough working with such options.

[crimsonwarlock]

In fact there are 2 cases to cover:
1. higher dpi devices (like Retina displays) - those require just higher density of points, straightly defined by a scale set up/provided by operating system.
2. bigger displays (ie 42", 52" etc), often called 4K, with pixel density comparable to FullHD monitors. In fact those are like four FullHD monitors aranged into 2x2 matrix. In those case, scaling by number given by operating system must not be adequate, since main goal of such big monitors is to extend workspace (so no need to clutter it with scaled up GUIs). Scaling setup in Operating system is used rather for comfortable text reading (bigger icons, text in browsers, editors etc).
However because of usual eye-to-monitor distance, some scaling is required anyway, but lower than one provided by operating system.

Hmmmm... Surge scales perfectly here in both scenarios as I have two HiDPI monitors (2K) AND a large 4K screen as a third monitor. No problems on either

They say windows isn't their strongpoint

.... and I'm on windows

So when a daw like Cakewalk have problems with scaling they are stumped and can't solve it.

Cakewalk is certainly not the best example of stable software (not now, and has never been). I'm using Reaper and every scale-able GUI, no matter the implementation, works without problems. It seems to me your scaling problem is a Cakewalk problem and not a Surge problem.

[crimsonwarlock]

By the way, not looking to derail this topic; I'm very much looking forward to a scale-able GUI on BlueArp. It's workable right now for me but a little bit bigger would be nice.

[Saffran]

In fact there are 2 cases to cover:
1. higher dpi devices (like Retina displays) - those require just higher density of points, straightly defined by a scale set up/provided by operating system.
2. bigger displays (ie 42", 52" etc), often called 4K, with pixel density comparable to FullHD monitors. In fact those are like four FullHD monitors aranged into 2x2 matrix. In those case, scaling by number given by operating system must not be adequate, since main goal of such big monitors is to extend workspace (so no need to clutter it with scaled up GUIs). Scaling setup in Operating system is used rather for comfortable text reading (bigger icons, text in browsers, editors etc).
However because of usual eye-to-monitor distance, some scaling is required anyway, but lower than one provided by operating system.

Hmmmm... Surge scales perfectly here in both scenarios as I have two HiDPI monitors (2K) AND a large 4K screen as a third monitor. No problems on either

They say windows isn't their strongpoint

.... and I'm on windows

So when a daw like Cakewalk have problems with scaling they are stumped and can't solve it.

Cakewalk is certainly not the best example of stable software (not now, and has never been). I'm using Reaper and every scale-able GUI, no matter the implementation, works without problems. It seems to me your scaling problem is a Cakewalk problem and not a Surge problem

Fine for you. I'm glad my misery can make someone happy.

[graywolf2004]

An update on my work on scalable GUI.
Yesterday I finished a dirty prototype which scales it to 125% and 150%. Theoretically can go up to 200%, but on FullHD it won't fit the screen. 150% barely fits it.
So it works, but needs some code clean-up and GUI polishing. Bold fonts don't look as good when scaled to 150%.

[Spitfire31]

An update on my work on scalable GUI.
Yesterday I finished a dirty prototype which scales it to 125% and 150%. Theoretically can go up to 200%, but on FullHD it won't fit the screen. 150% barely fits it.
So it works, but needs some code clean-up and GUI polishing. Bold fonts don't look as good when scaled to 150%.

[graywolf2004]

A quick update on my progress:
This Sunday I spent several hours on scalable GUI. Visually - 90% done (125% and 150% looks OK), continuing with code clean-up.
If everything goes as expected, next weekend I will upload Windows version. Compiling OSX version is a separate PITA for me, so it will come later with 1-2 week delay. Also Arial 14 on MAC looks slightly different than on Windows so I need to adjust margins/sizes for OSX, it will take some time.
I was playing with several common fonts, but still Arial looks the best. My only concern - on scaled up GUI bold Arial looks too bold.
I will expect some feedback on readability of scaled GUI and may adjust something accordingly.

[crimsonwarlock]

I was playing with several common fonts, but still Arial looks the best. My only concern - on scaled up GUI bold Arial looks too bold.

Did you look at the Droid font? iirc it was designed specifically to work on different size screens (phones and tablets).

https://www.fontsquirrel.com/fonts/droid-sans

[bftucker]

The Surge guys would probably love to know what you come up with.

Are you using the often-updated open-source version of Surge? The GUI isn't prettier but it can now be bigger!

graywolf2004, so glad to see you are still working on your great "labor of love." Thousands of us, around the world, appreciate what you have accomplished.

[Distorted Horizon]

Maybe this have been requested earlier, but a smoother/prettier UI wouldn't hurt

[crimsonwarlock]

Maybe this have been requested earlier, but a smoother/prettier UI wouldn't hurt

Although I love pretty user interfaces, I think BlueARP isn't that bad and does have a vibe of its own. Kirnu for example does look very nice but is a lot less accessible to me.

[Distorted Horizon]

Maybe this have been requested earlier, but a smoother/prettier UI wouldn't hurt

Although I love pretty user interfaces, I think BlueARP isn't that bad and does have a vibe of its own. Kirnu for example does look very nice but is a lot less accessible to me.

Yes, but the visual look is half the meal.

[chk071]

Maybe this have been requested earlier, but a smoother/prettier UI wouldn't hurt

Although I love pretty user interfaces, I think BlueARP isn't that bad and does have a vibe of its own. Kirnu for example does look very nice but is a lot less accessible to me.

True. Kirnu Cream is definitely better looking, but, harder to operate.

Top dollar would be both, of course. Good looking AND good to operate.