Fathom Synth Development Thread

[AmbieticA]

OK. I'm trying to be greedy.
I just want to be able to continue the project.

Just caught that comment ...No your not. Not at all. Your trying to survive within a marketplace that is absolutely saturated, and stepping up to whats necessary for continuation. Still waiting for "Starship Fathom" with a sample engine ...Carry on

[ztrauq]

Here's my thoughts on the copy protection scheme, in a nutshell:

-If a plugin has serial/non-machine-locked license file/no CP: whatever happens to the company, I can install the plugin so long as I have a computer that works with it. I may not technically "own" the plugin due to license agreements, but for all practical purposes I own it and can continue to use it.
-If a plugin has the sort of challenge/response that is being proposed here: If the company goes down/changes hands/decides to unilaterally stop issuing licenses/etc., I can never install the program again when I have to move to a new computer. I do not own the plugin; instead I have purchased a rental that extends to the "life" of the company + the life of whatever machine I'm running it on at the time. Because I am not being sold a plugin I can use indefinitely, but a license that can become limited spontaneously at any time, I am only going to consider getting the plugin on extreme sale if at all.

Yes, this is my personal opinion, but the technical problems in this licensing scheme are still present regardless. I like Fathom a lot, and I do hope that your business can be successful (and I agree that the other changes such as the restrictions on Fathom Mono are quite reasonable). However, if the new licensing system is implemented, like one of the other commenters I will likely hold at the current version, and will be considerably less likely to consider purchasing new versions or upgrades going forward.

[dandezebra]

Do what you need to do to keep this beauty going. Thanks for having the discussion as most developers are not willing!

Cheers!

[fmr]

What isn't clear to me is how many installation counts will we have? I don't want to be stuck with just one installation or two, which seems to be implied by your system.

[zzz00m]

However, the only reason I have not initiated the system yet is I'm not sure how people would feel about their computer sending a direct IP address socket message to an external host. Some people would have to temporarily disable their firewall and web security for a second.

No!

In cases where people strongly object to allowing a direct socket to their computer, I also coded an automated system in which the user simply sends an email requesting the same machine locked license and my host application sends them back an email reply automatically with the correct license key.

Fine!

[BBFG#]

Definitely not going to buy it with all this bouncing about. It seems it's reached a point where "time is of the essence" for the developer to make it clear how it's going forward.

BTW, I don't use the mono version for anything other than seeing where it's at.
(No recording.)

Maybe check how Urs is doing it with Zebralette & Zebra? Seems to work for them. I know they keep coming up as my favorite company/developer.

[mgw38]

Gee. If a developer is open about where he stands people complain about it. If he is not open, people complain about it. It seems that these guys can't win. This is a nice synth at a bargain price. It is not an investment I intend to write into my will. Some people spend more money on their daily morning coffee.

[BBFG#]

False equivalency to coffee and who spends $45 on one cup?
Although I buy my spouse rocks that are a closer equivalent.
At least I can use them for protection if need be.

[mgw38]

It is 32$ and he regularly puts it on sale for significantly less than that.

[BBFG#]

So who spends $32 on a cup of coffee?
And it's still $45. For the bundle...
Any analogy to perishable products means it eventually becomes waste.
So many of us our watching our intake these days. I think the only analogy that truly relates for me is to tools. And with that, I've stopped buying store brands since I've realized how often they kill the product by not supporting the parts (usually specialized battery packs.)

Won't buy a $32 cup of coffee or $100 Ryobi. Relating Fathom to either puts it in the wrong focus.
But now that you have, I'm struggling to find a metaphor that helps justify it...

[Gamma-UT]

A few things.

I'm not sure why a direct IP socket is so important. If it's because "there aren't many layers so it's all harder to hack", this isn't the greatest argument in the world. Certain classes of hacks may get ruled out but not all of them. And when you consider the increased convenience of not having to get people to disable firewalls simply by using port 80/443 HTTP/HTTPS like the rest of the world, it doesn't look that great a tradeoff.

Second, we've had another dev fall sick and their C/R server go west in the past month. Machine-locked C/R is not going to be popular choice among potential customers when one of the dev's concerns is "I'm not sure I can keep this project going". You can wind up deploying the bestest copy-protection ever only to find you can't grow the customer base that would make it worthwhile because they don't know how long things are going to last.

I'd have a chat to Urs at u-he about the copy-protection strategy they've built that works with serials and keyfiles. Yes, it doesn't prevent users copying serials and overusing them, but there is a lot less concern over that versus wondering how long the C/R server is going to be in place. And having just moved machines, having to work out what needs deactivating, whether it can be deactivated at all and whether I need to request another code is another thing that reminds me how C/R is my least favourite copy-protection scheme.

Also I do have some sympathy with people looking at this and wondering "so what do I have to do to get this thing now?" I've kinda lost track of what licence/key/list of dance steps I need to download the latest version and so...haven't bothered while I work with other things.

[Teksonik]

Not sure I understand the new concept so let me ask....Will Fathom phone home every time it is opened or a project that uses it is loaded ? If so what happens when it calls home and for whatever reason can't reach the server ? Will it fail to work in that case ?

[mgw38]

Any analogy to perishable products means it eventually becomes waste.
So many of us our watching our intake these days. I think the only analogy that truly relates for me is to tools. And with that, I've stopped buying store brands since I've realized how often they kill the product by not supporting the parts (usually specialized battery packs.)

There is an intrinsic value in supporting an independent developer. I actually bought Fathom while it was still a Windows-only product even though I am on a Mac and do not use Windows at all.

[mevla]

Although I wouldn't mind at the moment, as I wrote in my reply a bit earlier, that Fathom phones home, I must say that the reply was tainted by the fact that I do not use Fathom much, so far. I run Linux with an additional software layer for Windows plugins, and Fathom is still a bit slow in this regard. Very nice sounds, nice UI, though, but does not get used that much yet. Looking forward to it as improvements are made. I have the Pro version.

Now if it were being used regularly, an exclusive 'phone home' scheme would not be re-assuring. Even outside of server problems, the local ISP could have problems. A DNS server along the way could be down. There are a few pitfalls with such a scheme. There has to be an offline way in parallel. And if there is, that's the one I would choose.

[JunSev]

Any analogy to perishable products means it eventually becomes waste.
So many of us our watching our intake these days. I think the only analogy that truly relates for me is to tools. And with that, I've stopped buying store brands since I've realized how often they kill the product by not supporting the parts (usually specialized battery packs.)

There is an intrinsic value in supporting an independent developer. I actually bought Fathom while it was still a Windows-only product even though I am on a Mac and do not use Windows at all.

There is a difference when we buy a product in one state and with specific ways to do things and how it works. If one of my favorite developers goes all dongle, Ilok, elicencer, only tied to the machine sort of thing, Internet requesting, dependency or something as what is happening now, I would feel as if the world is falling apart and wouldn't update never, our relationship stop there, no more products purchase, I can't imagine that and I'm not exaggerating, it seems some people go fine with all of that but I know by experience what all of this means sadly.

Don't get me wrong, as someone loves their hardware and has a value for it, being synthesizer, effects, machines; for me even if it is software has the same value and even more, and when I do investment I like to ensure things the best way.