Fathom Synth Development Thread

[wagtunes]

DH, That's actually a brilliant idea!

I'll look into it.

Not sure if I ever mentioned this but it is always comforting to see the original names pop up in this thread, as long as the first generation keep showing up , Scrubbing Monkeys, RPH, TJ, Distorted Horizon, oops that's you sorry, etc, (as well as strong supporters like Ambietica) then I know we are still on track.

I think I even saw the man himself, Wagtunes, drop by recently, he was the very first poster in this thread two years go!

Vertion, My thoughts exactly for the product lines. But don't worry I will keep people informed.

Honestly, I was just in a complaining mood the last two weeks, but I'm over it. The deeper I get into the CPU redesign the more this other business stuff will get resolved and become less an issue. For the last year I was doing only Fathom demo's for the web site, and recently I went back to using some of my favorite other synths for a few songs of my own, and now I'm constantly having the experience ... "what? It can't do this? You're kidding me!, Isn't that just a basic necessity?" And then I realize, "oh right, I forgot, only Fathom can do that."

My favorite quote from any user was Scalawag's ...

"Is this the final synth to rule them all?"

Since my name was brought up, let me throw in my 2 cents.

The reason I have little to say in these threads anymore is because I bought the product (2 years ago in 2017) and since there are no new products to buy and Fathom is great, there's really not much to say.

So I absolutely agree, make more stuff. FX especially. Your loyal customers will purchase IF the stuff's as good as Fathom is. But with just one product, well, you know. Human nature being what it is, we don't constantly talk about synths we purchased X years ago. We talk about the new things. That's just the way it is. Yes, there are exceptions. But most people just use the stuff they bought and that's it. Otherwise, with the over 125 VSTs I own, I'd be in threads 24/7. Some people think I post too much as it is.

Bottom Line: Give me something else to buy and I'll buy it.

Good luck with whatever you have planned. I'll be watching.

[wagtunes]

Oh, by the way, I got Fathom for $25 when it first came out. I can't believe this monster of a synth only went up by $7 since.

That's just criminal given what most other synths go for that can't even touch this.

[sbmongoose]

While I understand to a major amount people saying that the price of Fathom is too low (I get it, it's ridiculously powerful, much more than I can currently wrap my head around), as an occasional hobbiest who likes making pleasing sounds from an instrument, when there was a Fathom Friday sale I was able to jump onto what seemed a bargain. I'm sure that even FathomCM is well above my level, but when it was seen as a bargain price that was actually within my disposable income I bought it. It has to be a careful ballance between affordable to enough people to keep an income coming in, but making it high end enough that it can demand "big money".
I do not envy you that ballance Everet, but I sincerly wish you luck.
Now, as a poor hobbyist that likes pressing keys to make the occasional nice sound, I hope you do a Fathom Friday sale on some of the preset expansions, as they seem to be creeping up in price.

[BBFG#]

Maybe it's actually priced right and all the others are too high.

[wagtunes]

Maybe it's actually priced right and all the others are too high.

Maybe, but given that hardware synths cost $1,000 or more, I'm not so sure.

Of course the whole thing is arguable and relative.

[Scrubbing Monkeys]

"I think sometimes musicians, who are normally used to getting all their software for free, forget that for the serious projects like Fathom, software takes money to develop, and if they use the product for free then the resources for the features which the want and demand are not going to magically appear out of thin air."

as is...
The state of the music industry.

....although there is hope. I can see advertisers footing the bill on streaming services to allow musicians to make money again. It is now faster, easier and more cost effective to stream than to buy or even pirate music. clicks = cash


Sorry to divert.

I agree with separate FX vsts. I for one would buy the delay. The reverbs are quite good as well. The phasor is ridiculously good.

I don’t think there is a pirate problem with Fathom....yet ...maybe never will be. Those of us that support it understand the game. Those that don’t aren’t even really in the game. They wouldn’t buy anyway.

[FathomSynth]

Wagtunes, thanks for your input.

BBFG, It's a combination of the two, partly the others are too high and Fathom is low. I can't charge the same for Fathom until the CPU is fixed and equal to the competition.

I do think software synths in general are over priced. My own attitude is that if anything cost over $100 it damn well better be able to either do every track in your song (except drums and vocals) or it better be insanely good at one thing (such as Diva is at analog emulation). My own research is that $25 to $30 is the high end of an impulse buy.

Originally I was planning on gradually increasing Fathom's price as features were added, but changed my mind since the world desperately needs a reasonably good synth for under $50 so why not make Fathom Pro that synth.

Drastic new features such as the Full Sampler, Arpeggiator, Open GUI, FX Throughput Version and Insane GPU processing speed could simply go into a different price point, for instance a Fathom "Extreme" so we don't lose the Fathom Pro price point.

None of this has been decided. However, one thing is certain, Fathom Pro users will have the option of full credit for Fathom Pro and all software upgrades toward "Extreme", or possibly even a direct and full transfer depending on feedback from the existing base, otherwise it would not be fair since many of our early users were investing in the cause in addition to simply buying a synth, and so they should given unfettered access to the extreme features.

[dreamvoid]

None of this has been decided.

This could be the big headline for the whole 'discussion'. Another idea, "Extreme" popped up, this and that, maybe, or not, what do you think, etc.
That is not sounding like a professional business, more like Kindergarten. I bought form the beginning a pro license and just see the whole project sinking into a mess of not done decisions and maybes, ideas, wishes and whatever. It seems to be more a psychological thing and I don't mean it in an evil manner. There seems to be an anxiety to make decisions.

[FathomSynth]

I respect your opinion.

[Sinthoid]

Just to throw my hat in the ring, I would absolutely pay for Fathom Elite. A simple discount for those that bought Pro would work nicely imo. I also support the no sales idea, have Pro be $32 til the end of time and sales only for Elite. Either way, reading these discussions has given me that much more faith in Fathom's future. Over time I think Fathom will stand out not only as an amazing synth, but Everett as a developer who thinks outside the box in a compelling way.

[AmbieticA]

I went back to using some of my favorite other synths for a few songs of my own, and now I'm constantly having the experience ... "what? It can't do this? You're kidding me!, Isn't that just a basic necessity?" And then I realize, "oh right, I forgot, only Fathom can do that."

Well said ...Exactly.

[Vertion]

I respect your opinion.

There will always be those that try to destroy others with bad judgement, slander/libel, and public shaming. Those hidden destroyers invariably are also self-destructive given enough time. Your methods build up positive energy in the community. Keep up the great work! I would love to see a circuit-modelled synth like Diva, Dagger/Zeeon, or Strobe/Cypher from Seaweed Audio one-day!

[carrieres]

Yes I realize Fathom is priced too low, but I can’t just suddenly raise it to $125 equal to the price of my cheapest competitor with the same features, because that will bring global fury upon me and Seaweed Audio.

The price of Fathom Pro will not go up until the CPU problem is address and that way the existing users will know that we stand behind our product and don’t raise prices until the product gives them the commensurate benefits.

Also, quite frankly many people like having a $32 synth that only lags other synths in CPU, so once the CPU technology is in place I may simply offer both a $32 and $125 synth, that way everyone is happy and we don’t have anyone upset with the company.

absolutely no, i completely disagree !
on the first page of this thread, two years ago numanoid said :

Just $45 for a fully modular synth

Hopefully released soon, this could be one of the bargains of the year

I got MUX for $61 and KarmaFX for $72, both fully modular so $45 isn't crazy. Depends on what it offers. MUX, with all it has, is insane for that little amount of money. KarmaFX is also a great deal.

another famous dev (TAL software) fixed the price of his products to 64€ (with VAT)

So, if two years ago your synth was already a bargain at 45$, today with all the new features, the price should be at least at 69€.
And yes, you can change the price next week by announcing now the end of the 32$ sale price.
it will allow you to have some sales at 49$ 4 times a year.

About your "cpu problem", a lot of dev have released their synth at their nominal price and improved the cpu usage (too many to mention) or polyphony (the legend) later without upsetting anyone

[glokraw]

That is not sounding like a professional business,

A business is defined by the products and services it provides,
and Seaweed Audio's Fathom is a great product.
Businesses hold Board of Directors meetings,
stockholder meetings, management workgroup gatherings,
team-building excersizes, gab-fests and brainstorming,
day-dreaming by the water cooler, even productive confrontations
on the loading dock, then

What could be more professional than open discussions
helping shape the future of the great Fathom synthesizer?
Fathom's creator is 'thinking out loud' here, values our opinions,
and in so doing, is helping to redefine the term 'professional',
in this sector of the market.
Cheers

[carrieres]

Keep in mind, I’m trying to answer your question, I’m not seeking business advice on this matter like I was with the license issue. Nor am I complaining because the ability of Fathom Mono to function so well as the ultimate mono lead synth without a purchase is completely my own fault.

Fathom Mono gets well over 1000 downloads a month !!! And if half of those people purchased Fathom Pro, I would have 3 DSP engineers and a tester working for me at this very minute.

I’ve been very clear about the fact that the overwhelming use of Fathom Mono is my own responsibility, because I simply put way too many features in it.

So I was alerting people to the fact that the Wave Table feature may have to be withdrawn from Mono. The reason I delayed is because I know that taking away something which is already there will cause a revolt (the license issue was a good example, although in that case the revolt was a good thing).

Fathom Mono users, please don’t be upset with what I’m saying, since the decision was mine and no one should feel bad for using a free product that is willingly provided, I’m only pointing out that new features are not free, so just place that fact in the balance of your ultimate decision, that’s all I was trying to say.

Please reduce drastically as soon as possible the feature set of Fathom mono if you feel it makes you loose sales.
Richard of Synapse Audio ditched Orion because he did not have enough time to maintain it and the product was not selling enough.
You don't owe nothing to potential customer using Fathom mono but only to your customer of the pro version.
Don't forget that kvr is a very small subset of your potential customer so you can NOT alert people here or talk to them.
There is so many musicians who don't read forums and let alone this thread for many reasons and one is because they don't read English.
To give you number, this thread has 141828 views and there is 3820 replies.
About the number of download this a very good news because it means that you have a big potential for improvement.
look at Voxengo number :
https://www.voxengo.com/group/all-vst-plugin-download/