Logic Pro 11 will be releasing later this year ? ?, are we expecting any major upgrades 10.5 ?

[Jace-BeOS]

That fact that macOS can be relatively easily hacked to support older hardware shows just how little reason, other than planned obsolescence, there is for Apple to discontinue support.

I absolutely agree. I just got my Macbook Pro 5,5 updated to High Sierra with DOSDude1's tools. I'm typing on it right now (and again, it's so disconcerting how blurry a non-retina screen is to me when I spend most of my day using the web on my iPad Pro). I've had this feeling about Apple since 2013 when iOS 7 came along and f**ked up the whole platform with changes for the sake of change, as well as introducing TONS of bugs STILL not fixed TODAY.

That other DAWs run just fine on older operating versions doesn't say much for the company's motives either.

On this one I'm more willing to be flexible. Apple may want to utilize new features their OS provides, while eliminating old stuff. I appreciate not wanting to keep legacy code forever. That's one of many reasons I hate Windows. That's why the arbitrary cutoff on supporting older hardware pisses me off. Here I am running Mac OS seemingly just fine, just to keep Logic as recent as possible, and this was something Apple were unwilling to do themselves.

[macmuse]

I just think it's wrong to change OS requirements within and during the same major version. When a person buys a software, they are entitled to that entire software version that they bought. Apple does not make that possible for people with certain computers so those people get short-changed and cheated out of bug fixes and whatnot. I just feel an OS change should only occur on the major X.0 versions. Logic had many OS changes during 10.

I don’t know. I prefer getting free updates for six years. If Apple were to release a new major version every time they cancel support for old OS versions, we‘d be paying for a major Logic version every 18 months or so.

The point is that they really don't have to cancel support for the old OS versions within the same major version. It seems to me it's more a hardware push. Yes, I like years of free updates as much as anyone else, but it's not fair to those who can't update for whatever reason because they paid full price for only a part of a whole version.

[macmuse]

(and again, it's so disconcerting how blurry a non-retina screen is to me when I spend most of my day using the web on my iPad Pro).

How bad is the blurriness? I have a great 30" non-retina screen that I want to continue using when I update (if I update..or I may just get a new computer / OS just for the internet, I dunno) .

[Jace-BeOS]

(and again, it's so disconcerting how blurry a non-retina screen is to me when I spend most of my day using the web on my iPad Pro).

How bad is the blurriness? I have a great 30" non-retina screen that I want to continue using when I update (if I update..or I may just get a new computer / OS just for the internet, I dunno) .

It’s no worse than any average non-retina display. It’s just the low resolution, not any added abnormality.

I’m accustomed to much denser PPI displays now, and I dislike using my lower-density-PPI devices. My 27” iMac 12,2 is a lesser annoyance than my 13” MacBook Pro 5,5.

Even before 2005, I was wondering why we had such low PPI displays and why no one was bothering to push for denser PPI screens. All the aliasing and antialiasing... it just seemed like we weren’t progressing.

Denser PPI aids readability for me to a great degree and I was instantly spoiled by my iPhone 4. There’s just no going back for me.

[macmuse]

It’s no worse than any average non-retina display. It’s just the low resolution, not any added abnormality.

Good. From things I've been reading it seemed like the blurriness increased with Mojave, although there supposedly is a terminal fix / pseudo-fix. The retina looks beautiful, no doubt, but some graphics people say it hinders reliability for printed proofing is the only negative, even with proper calibration. In other words, it looks better than what things really are. Apps look great on it though.

[jonljacobi]

The bluriness is largely due to the way macOS renders fonts. Try installing Windows via boot camp and see the difference. I’ve long wished Apple would provide a “readability” mode.

[dayjob]

you're correct.
the specs at apple for next logic say that at least 10.13.6 "High Sierra" is required as minimum OS spec.

Can you confirm what you mean by this? The Logic Pro currently on the Apple website (https://www.apple.com/logic-pro/) does say 10.13. But that is the current version, right? They don't talk about the next version (not that it would be any lower requirement of course).

The weird thing is, on the App store, it states 10.12 as the minimum requirement... So that's confusing.

I haven't upgraded to Logic X yet, and am on Sierra, so I'm in 2 minds about whether I should jump in now while the app store still specifies 10.12.

But the discrepancy is strange.

Interestingly, the US product page already states 1000 audio and 1000 MIDI tracks, as well as the 10.13 requirement. Although, as far as I can tell, no new features. The German website still says 250 tracks and 10.12 as requirement.

So it looks to me like they're in the process of updating the website, which hopefully means a release is imminent. Would make sense to iron out any issues with existing setups before the big Mac Pro release, too.

the new specs.. or the partial new specs, the bit about 1000 tracks etc went live the day of the WWDC.. so i'm guessing they'll flesh out the page w/more info when it's relevant but it appears that's the new tech specs/requirements. 10.13.6 as a minimum

[Jace-BeOS]

The bluriness is largely due to the way macOS renders fonts. Try installing Windows via boot camp and see the difference. I’ve long wished Apple would provide a “readability” mode.

Windows anti-aliases differently, but I'm not sure I thought it was better. I think Windows fonts are smaller, too, by comparison, on the same resolutions. The only time I had a bootcamp partition was on a different Mac that died of NVidia disease, so it's been a long time since I've compared the two OSes on the same machine. I was hoping to have that setup on a future Mac Pro... ha ha ha ha ha...

My real complaint is that I'm spoilt by the far superior text on retina displays. Some day I will have a computer, not just an iOS device, with a retina display. Apple's insane "Mac Plutocrat" isn't going to be it. I'll probably be driven to buy another of their stupidly compact machines, and probably an iMac. Exactly what I didn't want and why I've waited almost TEN YEARS for a proper Mac workstation and display combo. Maybe I'll get lucky and someone will gift me a gaming PC and I can catch up on all the games I've missed over the last 8 years...

[Tronam]

Sierra is solid for me too. When you did Mojave, did you do a clean install or migration? What do you notice better than Sierra to make you say one of the best releases?

On this dropped 32-bit support in Catalina, does that mean that running 32-bit plugins under 32Lives or JBridge in the 64-bit host won't work any more?

I did a Mojave migration from Sierra. It felt smoother, faster, and I have encountered no driver issues or performance hiccups. I’m also really fond of the new dark mode. Overall it just feels more polished than HS which introduced a bunch of new under the hood changes that weren’t fully mature yet. With regards to Catalina, it simply won’t run 32-bit applications any longer. I’m pretty sure 32-bit plugins will still work just fine in bridge utilities or 64-bit hosts that still support them. The problem for me is that I still have projects stuck in 32-bit hosts like Ableton Live which won’t migrate very well. One workaround would be to keep a bootable Sierra or Mojave backup on an external drive and just boot from that whenever I need to access an older project. This actually works extremely well if you use a tool like Carbon Copy Cloner or SuperDuper (my personal favorite).

[Tronam]

My real complaint is that I'm spoilt by the far superior text on retina displays. Some day I will have a computer, not just an iOS device, with a retina display. Apple's insane "Mac Plutocrat" isn't going to be it. I'll probably be driven to buy another of their stupidly compact machines, and probably an iMac. Exactly what I didn't want and why I've waited almost TEN YEARS for a proper Mac workstation and display combo. Maybe I'll get lucky and someone will gift me a gaming PC and I can catch up on all the games I've missed over the last 8 years...

I was holding out hope for a potential Mac Pro myself, but now realize their target market is way over my head and more geared toward production companies and high end video editors. So, I’m going to get one of the new 9th gen 8-core iMacs with vega graphics instead. I considered a Mac Mini, but finding a display at the same level of quality and consistency as Apple’s 27” retina 5K coupled with an external GPU enclosure would probably end up being more expensive. I could ditch the Mac altogether, but I just don’t think I have it in me to deal with all the hassle of a full platform transition again. I’ve done it numerous times over the years and I just don’t like Windows enough to go through it again. Custom PC building is fun, but I’ve grown weary of constant computer nerdery. I’d rather just focus on my music and photography.

[jonljacobi]

Windows renders fonts for screen readability, not accuracy. And you can change the size easily. They are far sharper. I’m not plugging Windows, that’s simply a fact. Apple could do this, but they choose differently.

[jonljacobi]

iMacs are a pretty decent deal when you factor in the display.

[Jace-BeOS]

My real complaint is that I'm spoilt by the far superior text on retina displays. Some day I will have a computer, not just an iOS device, with a retina display. Apple's insane "Mac Plutocrat" isn't going to be it. I'll probably be driven to buy another of their stupidly compact machines, and probably an iMac. Exactly what I didn't want and why I've waited almost TEN YEARS for a proper Mac workstation and display combo. Maybe I'll get lucky and someone will gift me a gaming PC and I can catch up on all the games I've missed over the last 8 years...

I was holding out hope for a potential Mac Pro myself, but now realize their target market is way over my head and more geared toward production companies and high end video editors. So, I’m going to get one of the new 9th gen 8-core iMacs with vega graphics instead. I considered a Mac Mini, but finding a display at the same level of quality and consistency as Apple’s 27” retina 5K coupled with an external GPU enclosure would probably end up being more expensive. I could ditch the Mac altogether, but I just don’t think I have it in me to deal with all the hassle of a full platform transition again. I’ve done it numerous times over the years and I just don’t like Windows enough to go through it again. Custom PC building is fun, but I’ve grown weary of constant computer nerdery. I’d rather just focus on my music and photography.

I don’t consider building PCs to be fun, and I swore never to do it again after the last several... But yeah, I’m right there with you. I have zero tolerance for Windows anymore. It’ll probably be an iMac I end up with, thanks to the Mac Pro product line being turned into something that’s only for corporations with vast resources. Who knows. I am too angry to run out and buy anything right now.

[Jace-BeOS]

iMacs are a pretty decent deal when you factor in the display.

I don’t disagree when it comes to using them for moderate music & photography work, and content consumption.

However, trying to do anything that runs both the CPU & GPU at 100% for hours is... uh... not at all ideal on Apple’s compact computers. I’ve had a MacBook Pro die on me due to thermal design.

That’s why I’ve been waiting for a tower Mac Pro. I don’t know that I’ll ever go back to 3D rendering, but rendering Logic projects can peg the CPU at 100% and it always makes me paranoid on my MacBook Pro 5,5 (clearly worse off with thermals compared to my second-hand iMac 12,2).

I definitely wouldn’t game on these machines from Bootcamped Windows. I can’t afford to repeatedly replace self-destructing computers and I’m not sure their mobile GPU performance is acceptable. My intent was to use a new Mac Pro tower as a studio machine AND a moderate Windows gaming rig (no, I don’t care if it’s not a bleeding edge gaming GPU, I just want to be able to replace my old PC with something that I can use for the games I’ve been missing over the last six years).

[pdxindy]

iMacs are a pretty decent deal when you factor in the display.

I do not want the computer right up by my face... fan noise is too annoying there.

There is room for something between the Mac Mini and the new Mac Pro. I'm happy with the Mac Mini as a dedicated audio machine for my simple needs but I'm sure plenty of people would want that in-between