Modern FM8?

[NewDelhiTommy]

i think out of all I like Toxic Biohazard the most. It has got some warmth to it that the other FM softsynths can’t replicate.

[spoontechnique]

I would really recommend people try Kilohearts Phase Plant for FM. I've used FM8 for years now and I've organically dropped it for PP. Phase Plant is dumb flexible compared to FM8. 32 oscillators instead of 8, extremely flexible and intuitive routing, and the option to FM from wavetables or samples all put it above FM8 for me. That and the modulators and envelopes are much easier to use.

I honestly can't shill PP enough for FM synthesis. Maybe MSF is better, I haven't tried it, but PP is everything I'd want FM8 to be, minus a few effects and the easy readability of the FM graph.

[jeffb01]

I honestly can't shill PP enough for FM synthesis. Maybe MSF is better, I haven't tried it, but PP is everything I'd want FM8 to be, minus a few effects and the easy readability of the FM graph.

My concern is how do you know or remember what is modulating what. I think I would get lost.

Btw, I put made the same patch (all sine waves, 3 (an octave below -> 2 -> 1) with all my FM synths (FM8, Flow Motion, Arturia DX7, Wiggle, Phase 4, and Bazille). They all sounded good, but Flow Motion sounded noticeably better to my ears. I couldn't test Nemesis (only 2 oscs), and Avenger actually sounded bad, but I don't hold it against it as it's not a FM synth and Avenger's FM sounds really good when you use just one OSC on another.

[KBSoundSmith]

I've been demoing Phase Plant a bit more and it has grown on me, in some ways. But not in others.

What I like: it sounds good when used in its comfort zone, and you can get into unique territory with it because it has oscillator/operator options that don't exist in most other FM synths right now. Also, the operators run hotter than in FM8 (good if you're going for crazy, a little rougher if going for subtle, FM8 may be easier to use in such a case). If in FM8, set Op E to Sine/KeySync and modulate Op F with a value of 100. To match in Phase Plant, Set the PM amount to 62%, and reduce output gain to about -18db

But there are a few things I don't like. GUI, wavetable morphing (very rough, doesn't sound like there's interpolation at all...load Acoustic -> Brass then apply Modwheel to Frame, you'll hear what I'm talking about ) ... pricing scheme ... Plus there are some oddities (e.g., Envelope Decay and Release curves can only be flat or bent down, can't bend up).

The biggest issue for me is the GUI. The more complex of a patch one tries to make, the more unseemly and unwieldy the GUI becomes. Tracking what is modulating what (whether operators or modulators) is a pain in the ass. In FM8, everything is understood immediately -- the signal flow is crystal clear at all times. To say I'd miss it is an understatement.

Example of another irritant: velocity sensitivity. To make a modulator velocity sensitive, I have to create three modules: Modulator, Velocity, Multiply. Now the bottom of the screen ends up cluttered for something that could have been accomplished with a small dial on the modulator...as if this wasn't going to be an extremely common function! Yeah I can minimize those modules -- no it doesn't help with visually understanding the patch or reducing clutter. I can understand why they're kept separate, since it does allows the modulators to be discrete and flexible, but there had to be a better solution than this.

A few other things: No copy/paste of custom LFO shapes (or the ability to save custom curves). Can't control the curvature of custom LFO shapes (big irritant for me). The length of a custom LFO isn't clear (need to math out using 1 HZ = 1 sec as a reference to determine length of non-tempo synced LFO as envelope). Again, wavetable morphing not interpolated. Sample quality is lackluster and undermines ability to FM with them (fortunately can load your own). I don't see any ability to set key ranges for samples. Sample looping is a mixed bag.

Irritants aside though... It does sound quite good in its comfort zone. And even though it's unnecessarily hobbled by its interface, it's usable once you get used to the way it works. I do like that you can right click and type in numerical values, that does make things faster (although you can do the same in FM8, for certain parameters, like envelope editing, ratios, etc). Another thing worth mentioning is that the effects are also subject to modulation (and unfortunately subject to the terrible pricing scheme).

TL:DR I HATE THE GUI (but it's workable), there are some sonic hiccups (wavetable morphing and lackluster samples + sample loops) and there are a few design choices which strike me as naive and not carefully thought out. It's powerful, but seriously lacks polish.

[metaside]

TL:DR I HATE THE GUI (but it's workable), there are some sonic hiccups (wavetable morphing and lackluster samples + sample loops) and there are a few design choices which strike me as naive and not carefully thought out. It's powerful, but seriously lacks polish.

Thanks for taking the time to describe your experiences in detail! I'm still demoing it.

[gentleclockdivider]

Think Ive seen OP over in Bitwig forum. Bitwigs FM4 is pretty good. Bitwigs Phase4 is decent too, but thats phase modulation; although Ive read that several big synths that are “FM” are actually “PM” synths.

Phase-4 is a top notch synth... but of course you can only use that in Bitwig.

Both Bitwig fm4 and phase 4 and N.I. fm 7/8 are phase modulation synths
Extra points for phase 4 since it also does phase distortion

[pdxindy]

Think Ive seen OP over in Bitwig forum. Bitwigs FM4 is pretty good. Bitwigs Phase4 is decent too, but thats phase modulation; although Ive read that several big synths that are “FM” are actually “PM” synths.

Phase-4 is a top notch synth... but of course you can only use that in Bitwig.

Both Bitwig fm4 and phase 4 and N.I. fm 7/8 are phase modulation synths
Extra points for phase 4 since it also does phase distortion

It also can work with more complex waveforms...

[BONES]

Panzertank PM4 or Toxic for me. The original Toxic had a beautiful tone and the idea of a literal mod matrix instead of algorithms is much easier to get your head around and a lot more flexible into the bargain. Sadly, neither are available any longer so I'm being no help at all.

[Tj Shredder]

The Grid in Bitwig allows unlimited operators and sounds pretty damn good. You can place all kinds of oscilloscopes and spectroscopes into points in the signal flow which helps a lot to understand what is going on while you tweak those values...
Its my go to replacement for a lot of synths...

[aMUSEd]

I would love Arturia to make a FM synth with the same modulation approach as Pigments (or maybe add FM to what it can do)

[Halonmusic]

Panzertank PM4 or Toxic for me. The original Toxic had a beautiful tone and the idea of a literal mod matrix instead of algorithms is much easier to get your head around and a lot more flexible into the bargain. Sadly, neither are available any longer so I'm being no help at all.

Panzertank PM4 is great. Thought i was the only one that liked that one.

[Halonmusic]

Never tried it but VOPM seems interesting.

64bit win/mac versions too.

http://www.vst4free.com/free_vst.php?pl ... PM&id=1066

[Tj Shredder]

But that is the other direction - timewise. We look for future FM, not FM of the past...

[LeVzi]

Well with the long awaited upgrade to Massive X in the pipeline, maybe FM8 will see FM9 on it's way, and the GUI needs reworking tbh, but I don't really know what else you could do to it, maybe some modulation improvements , but I cant see much else.

[Halonmusic]

But that is the other direction - timewise. We look for future FM, not FM of the past...

Ah, sorry.