Phase Plant released

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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JunSev
KVRian
541 posts since 14 Sep, 2017

Post Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:18 pm

yellowmix wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:53 pm
JunSev wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:46 pm
But this is only true because Phaseplant doesn't have the deepness, possibilities and versatility that MSoundFactory and Falcon has for each module and FX possibilities, also because you barely need to go trough tabs, one of the main reasons some people dislike the last two.
In most cases I would turn to PP before MSF because I don't have time to work with that modulation system and I can get great results quickly with PP. I don't mind menu diving but it costs money.

Also, the point of the Snap-Ins is elegant simplicity and synergy, which works really well in PP. Melda-style FX in PP would bog it down and be non-poly, and KH FX in MSF would actually speed up the workflow and be fully poly. PP and MSF simply have two different paradigms but ultimately can deliver the same level of results, so get both and enjoy the best of both worlds.
Well in most cases I would go for MSoundFactory anytime because I can't stand limitations and because at the end it offers more versatility and power. The deepness is optional and if I would like to get some of it and needs a learning curve, that's perfect too, because I know there will be more possibilities even if I have to learn more, I save the presets and I can go for a quicker workflow already; that will not cost money.

Again, what I'm trying to specify is no, PhasePlant (is a good, powerful and versatile synthesizer) can't be compared to MSoundFactory or Falcon.

User avatar
plexuss
KVRAF
3058 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: Phase Plant released

Post Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:33 pm

JunSev wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:18 pm
yellowmix wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:53 pm
JunSev wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:46 pm
But this is only true because Phaseplant doesn't have the deepness, possibilities and versatility that MSoundFactory and Falcon has for each module and FX possibilities, also because you barely need to go trough tabs, one of the main reasons some people dislike the last two.
In most cases I would turn to PP before MSF because I don't have time to work with that modulation system and I can get great results quickly with PP. I don't mind menu diving but it costs money.

Also, the point of the Snap-Ins is elegant simplicity and synergy, which works really well in PP. Melda-style FX in PP would bog it down and be non-poly, and KH FX in MSF would actually speed up the workflow and be fully poly. PP and MSF simply have two different paradigms but ultimately can deliver the same level of results, so get both and enjoy the best of both worlds.
Well in most cases I would go for MSoundFactory anytime because I can't stand limitations and because at the end it offers more versatility and power. The deepness is optional [snip]
I'd love to hear the amazing sounds you are creating with MSF and know what kind of processing power is required to play them! :tu: :phones:

yellowmix
KVRian
1044 posts since 11 Aug, 2012 from omfr morf form romf frmo

Re: Phase Plant released

Post Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:40 pm

JunSev wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:18 pm
Well in most cases I would go for MSoundFactory anytime because I can't stand limitations and because at the end it offers more versatility and power. The deepness is optional and if I would like to get some of it and needs a learning curve, that's perfect too, because I know there will be more possibilities even if I have to learn more, I save the presets and I can go for a quicker workflow already; that will not cost money.
Sure, features are nice but they're not always proportional to results. u-He's released several products in a row that are really elegant due to a "less is more" paradigm, where the feature on paper was nowhere near as impressive as actually using them. 4 Shapers and 2 Function Generators in Hive 2 wasn't exciting enough for a lot of people when it was just text and screenshots, but when it landed and shown you could make an entire song with it, people saw the possibilities. Having now used it, I wish that modulation system were in PP and MSF. I can approximate it with infinite LFOs and envelopes but again, workflow. But I'm not gonna hold it against them.

If you see nothing but limitations in a synth make sure you're not missing the possibilities.

User avatar
JunSev
KVRian
541 posts since 14 Sep, 2017

Re: Phase Plant released

Post Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:35 pm

yellowmix wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:40 pm
JunSev wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:18 pm
Well in most cases I would go for MSoundFactory anytime because I can't stand limitations and because at the end it offers more versatility and power. The deepness is optional and if I would like to get some of it and needs a learning curve, that's perfect too, because I know there will be more possibilities even if I have to learn more, I save the presets and I can go for a quicker workflow already; that will not cost money.
Sure, features are nice but they're not always proportional to results. u-He's released several products in a row that are really elegant due to a "less is more" paradigm, where the feature on paper was nowhere near as impressive as actually using them. 4 Shapers and 2 Function Generators in Hive 2 wasn't exciting enough for a lot of people when it was just text and screenshots, but when it landed and shown you could make an entire song with it, people saw the possibilities. Having now used it, I wish that modulation system were in PP and MSF. I can approximate it with infinite LFOs and envelopes but again, workflow. But I'm not gonna hold it against them.

If you see nothing but limitations in a synth make sure you're not missing the possibilities.
I think that a synth is not necessarily bad if it is limited, PhasePlant, as Hive 2 are very nice synths and versatile, but they are limited and nothing will change that. Yes they are useful and powerful, but limited.

And yes there are limitations in all synths, but if I know I can get the more powerful, capable and versatile, I will always go for it simply because I can do more and in a future I know there will be no so much limitations and my investment would be more complete and logical.

PhasePlant is a nice powerful synth of course, just was trying to explain to Plexuss why he simply can't compare it with MSoundFactory or Falcon.

User avatar
plexuss
KVRAF
3058 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: Phase Plant released

Post Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:58 pm

JunSev wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:35 pm
PhasePlant is a nice powerful synth of course, just was trying to explain to Plexuss why he simply can't compare it with MSoundFactory or Falcon.
However, I did, and do. So therefore I can. That's what an opinion is... :dog:

User avatar
JunSev
KVRian
541 posts since 14 Sep, 2017

Re: Phase Plant released

Post Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:02 pm

plexuss wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:58 pm
JunSev wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:35 pm
PhasePlant is a nice powerful synth of course, just was trying to explain to Plexuss why he simply can't compare it with MSoundFactory or Falcon.
However, I did, and do. So therefore I can. That's what an opinion is... :dog:
Yeah I know that you know is your opinion, all good Plexuss, enjoy PhasePlant. :hug:

User avatar
plexuss
KVRAF
3058 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: Phase Plant released

Post Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:04 pm

plexuss wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:53 pm
wagtunes wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:46 pm
[snip]
Does anybody here know for certain?
I just emailed them asking. I'll post the reply when I get it. :phones:
Here is their reply:
You can use all the snapins you own in all our snapin hosts, Snap Heap, Multipass, Phase Plant and any we add in the future. Our goal with our different bundles and upgrades is that you never pay twice for anything you own, and all bundles should be discounted accordingly.

yellowmix
KVRian
1044 posts since 11 Aug, 2012 from omfr morf form romf frmo

Re: Phase Plant released

Post Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:29 am

JunSev wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:35 pm
And yes there are limitations in all synths, but if I know I can get the more powerful, capable and versatile, I will always go for it simply because I can do more and in a future I know there will be no so much limitations and my investment would be more complete and logical.

PhasePlant is a nice powerful synth of course, just was trying to explain to Plexuss why he simply can't compare it with MSoundFactory or Falcon.
Do you use only one synth then? Which is less limited, MSF or Falcon?

User avatar
JunSev
KVRian
541 posts since 14 Sep, 2017

Re: Phase Plant released

Post Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:04 am

yellowmix wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:29 am
JunSev wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:35 pm
And yes there are limitations in all synths, but if I know I can get the more powerful, capable and versatile, I will always go for it simply because I can do more and in a future I know there will be no so much limitations and my investment would be more complete and logical.

PhasePlant is a nice powerful synth of course, just was trying to explain to Plexuss why he simply can't compare it with MSoundFactory or Falcon.
Do you use only one synth then? Which is less limited, MSF or Falcon?
Well not exactly, there are synths that will have a place for what they are and because of how special they are in their particular areas. I have Sytrus and will continue being a go-to FM synth, the same with Icarus, my favorite go-to wavetable synth.

For me MSoundFactory is like the super all around modular-workstation I was looking for, and is super special creating sounds I never heard creating presets with sytrus or Icarus.

So those being my top 3 favorite synths I couldn't say which one is my favorite or top 1 because the main two Icarus and MSF are my favorites.

So at the end I think that there is a special place for everything.

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
15896 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Phase Plant released

Post Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:23 am

plexuss wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:04 pm
plexuss wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:53 pm
wagtunes wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:46 pm
[snip]
Does anybody here know for certain?
I just emailed them asking. I'll post the reply when I get it. :phones:
Here is their reply:
You can use all the snapins you own in all our snapin hosts, Snap Heap, Multipass, Phase Plant and any we add in the future. Our goal with our different bundles and upgrades is that you never pay twice for anything you own, and all bundles should be discounted accordingly.
Yeah, got back the same reply. I'm probably going to pick this up once the estate is settled and I'm not so poor.

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Biome_Digital
KVRian
702 posts since 9 Jan, 2014 from Worldwide

Re: Phase Plant released

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:37 pm

exmatproton wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 4:06 pm
Don’t miss the “Poly” toggle at the top of each lane. It allows you to apply all the effects in a lane to each voice individually, even giving each voice unique random values from the Random modulator etc. <--- this is just so awesome! Per voice fx is truly underrated. I know Falcon can do it and i love it
Yep, and say good bye to your cpu :hihi:

User avatar
Biome_Digital
KVRian
702 posts since 9 Jan, 2014 from Worldwide

Re: Phase Plant released

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:40 pm

Just playing with this. Really nice synth actually! Got a bit of a cpu issue with samples but this is quite a power house, nice wide sound too. :)

User avatar
BONES
GRRRRRRR!
8215 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Phase Plant released

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:27 pm

JunSev wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:35 pm
I think that a synth is not necessarily bad if it is limited, PhasePlant, as Hive 2 are very nice synths and versatile, but they are limited and nothing will change that. Yes they are useful and powerful, but limited.
Everything is limited. No soft synth will brew beer, for example. If you think Hive 2 is limited, I'd suggest your thinking and/or your imagination is extremely limited. From what I've seen of it, your precious MSoundFactory seems very limited by it's GUI and workflow. It looks to me like the very death of creativity, like the type of tool you use when you've been given a job to do by a very fussy client and you have formulated a detailed plan as to how to get it done.
And yes there are limitations in all synths, but if I know I can get the more powerful, capable and versatile, I will always go for it simply because I can do more and in a future I know there will be no so much limitations and my investment would be more complete and logical.
That only makes sense if you are only allowed to have one synth. But you can have as many as you like and I can guarantee you that for the full price of MSoundFactory, I could buy a suite of instruments that would, combined, run rings around it. In fact, I could probably assemble an arsenal of free instruments that would do the same. That's the thing, you can build complexity within an arrangement and a mix, there is no reason to pack it all into a single instrument. It doesn't even make sense to try, it is far too limiting.
JunSev wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:04 am
I have Sytrus and will continue being a go-to FM synth, the same with Icarus, my favorite go-to wavetable synth.
That's some limited thinking, right there. Who has a "go-to FM synth" or "go-to wavetable synth"? I have synths that I've used for certain sounds and I know will do the job again. That rarely has anything to do with the type of synthesis they employ, especially as my real faves tend to employ multiple types of synthesis, allowing me to mix and match.
For me MSoundFactory is like the super all around modular-workstation I was looking for, and is super special creating sounds I never heard creating presets with sytrus or Icarus.
I'd say the same of Substance and it's just a Kontakt instrument with a fairly narrow focus. I'll bet it does things that MSoundFactory couldn't hope to match.
exmatproton wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 4:06 pm
Don’t miss the “Poly” toggle at the top of each lane. It allows you to apply all the effects in a lane to each voice individually, even giving each voice unique random values from the Random modulator etc. <--- this is just so awesome! Per voice fx is truly underrated. I know Falcon can do it and i love it
And how is that any different from just loading up two instances of a one oscillator synth?
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Acer Switch5 (Core i5, 8GB RAM, Win10),Behringer QX1002USB, Cubase Pro 10, DUNE, Hive, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Substance, Arcsyn, Seaboard Block, Lightpad Block M, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno, Skulpt.

PieBerger
KVRist
312 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London

Re: Phase Plant released

Post Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:02 am

BONES wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:27 pm
JunSev wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:35 pm
I think that a synth is not necessarily bad if it is limited, PhasePlant, as Hive 2 are very nice synths and versatile, but they are limited and nothing will change that. Yes they are useful and powerful, but limited.
Everything is limited. No soft synth will brew beer, for example. If you think Hive 2 is limited, I'd suggest your thinking and/or your imagination is extremely limited.
Hive 2 IS limited, by design, beside how good it sounds, it's one of the best things about it. It can't do audio rate modulations, it has a small, fixed number of oscillators/filters, limited routing capabilities. Hive is a wonderful synth, my favourite, although I think Phase Plant is going to give it some strong competition, at least until Zebra3 comes around, but there's only so much that can be done with it. I'll repeat again that it's limitations are not necessarily a negative, but they are there.
exmatproton wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 4:06 pm
Don’t miss the “Poly” toggle at the top of each lane. It allows you to apply all the effects in a lane to each voice individually, even giving each voice unique random values from the Random modulator etc. <--- this is just so awesome! Per voice fx is truly underrated. I know Falcon can do it and i love it
And how is that any different from just loading up two instances of a one oscillator synth?
[/quote]

Workflow and modulation. What if you want to adjust the amp envelope, with your suggested multiple-instance solution, that's a whole lot of tedious tweaking, especially for 3 and above voices, it would also be a pain to program chords would it not? Having a separate MIDI channel for each note in a chord, would be madness and a major workflow killer. For someone so fond of Hive and it's efficient workflow, I find it odd that you would propose such a clunky alternative here. With regards to modulation, as an example, you could enable poly FX for lane 1 add the distortion Snapin (for a cleaner effect in polymode), keytrack the depth so that higher notes are less distorted and therefore less harsh/shrill, but lower notes can still be grungy/beefy, have that signal feed into lane 2 which is also poly, add a delay with feedback modulated by a random device, so that each voice has a slightly longer/shorter tail and finally feed that into lane 3 in global mode with a sweeping filter and reverb, that effects all voices simultaneously for a more coherent/glued together sound. Imagine trying to achieve all of that, using multiple single synth instances :o
Always Read the Manual!

User avatar
exmatproton
KVRAF
2289 posts since 25 Apr, 2011

Re: Phase Plant released

Post Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:24 am

BONES wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:27 pm
exmatproton wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 4:06 pm
Don’t miss the “Poly” toggle at the top of each lane. It allows you to apply all the effects in a lane to each voice individually, even giving each voice unique random values from the Random modulator etc. <--- this is just so awesome! Per voice fx is truly underrated. I know Falcon can do it and i love it
And how is that any different from just loading up two instances of a one oscillator synth?
Have fun loading up 16 (or 24, or whatever polyphonic count you want) one voice synths and wire everything so that you get the same result... :dog:

It is not applied to each oscillator, but each voice. So if you want to work with, let's say, 20 voices, you'll need 20 mono synths and wire all env's, lfo's, s/h's etc ... ..

I've done something similar to make REPRO-1 polyphonic...6 voices costs me this:
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