Output - Introducing PORTAL: A Granular FX Plugin

[Caine123]

I dunno why people compare vst plugin effects with a kontakt sample library. Sorry but kinda stupid to have to point this out.

[vurt]

I dunno why people compare vst plugin effects with a kontakt sample library. Sorry but kinda stupid to have to point this out.

no one did, they pointed out the company does both, then someone even said theyre different things.

sorry, kinda stupid to have to point this out.

[simmo75]

I dunno why people compare vst plugin effects with a kontakt sample library. Sorry but kinda stupid to have to point this out.

Learn to think and read before you write!
Who’s kinda stupid? Apparently you...

[Caine123]

Im sorry i thought someone compared sample libraries with vst effect plugins.

[EnochLight]

Im sorry i thought someone compared sample libraries with vst effect plugins.

No. We were suggesting a different try/buy/demo policy for the two, since they are clearly different products.

[pinki]

Is Granite an effects plugin?

Yes, and an instrument too.

Granite is NOT an effect, it’s an instrument. Where did you get that?

You are right, my mistake, it loads sounds and samples, it does not take a live input. It has the ability to take midi input from a keyboard as well as just act on the sample. That’s what I was confusing.

I think you’re confused.
You may be thinking about Crusher-X.

No ...Granite loads sounds and samples and you can play midi into it.

[BONES]

I’m not sure how you can NOT think policies like this are hostile to consumers, but whatever.

Because I look at it in absolute terms, not relative terms, so if I am happy pay for hardware up-front, there is no reason not to be happy to pay for software up-front, as long as I can return it if it doesn't do what I want/need it to.

Most people here in this forum (and I’d wager most on the Internet on any music forum) trial and buy their wares from the Internet. Plugin manufacturers know this.

As I said yesterday, maybe it's how Output separate their preferred customers from the great unwashed?

Are we talking hardware from a shop? No, we’re talking software from the Internet. The precedence that Output is demonstrating should concern consumers, IMHO.

We are talking my money and other people's products. It's not about what it is or where I get it from, it's about me and what I'm willing to do. To be fair, when I buy something from a shop, I at least get to play with it first but that is rarely sufficiently illuminating and I do return stuff now and then. I'd also point out that I do buy a fair bit of hardware on line, from overseas sellers, where returns can be difficult and expensive. If that doesn't stop me, this certainly won't.

[deastman]

Portal sounds great and looks extremely immediate and easy to use. It isn’t cheap, however, and for me that begs the question of whether I’d be better off spending an additional $100 USD and taking the plunge on Crusher-X instead. The latter is obviously way deeper and less intuitive to work with, but will it end up yielding so much more variety of sound as to make it a worthwhile investment? I sometimes wonder if endless variety with a lot more effort (Crusher-X) is actually better than immediacy and a sufficient amount of variety (Portal).

[perpetual3]

Just came across this at GS:

“It is a legal requirement under distance selling rules that you give people a 14 day no questions asked return policy. If you don't inform them of this right clearly, then they get a further 12 months. You're not offering your customers anything extra or over and above, all you're doing is informing people of a pre-existing legal consumer right. Check Native Instruments, Ableton etc and they all have this clearly listed for years in their terms and conditions.”

[elxsound]

Just came across this at GS:

“It is a legal requirement under distance selling rules that you give people a 14 day no questions asked return policy. If you don't inform them of this right clearly, then they get a further 12 months. You're not offering your customers anything extra or over and above, all you're doing is informing people of a pre-existing legal consumer right. Check Native Instruments, Ableton etc and they all have this clearly listed for years in their terms and conditions.”

This is not a universal law, and hardly one a US based company would assume they need to follow. Argue away if you want, but that's all I have to say on that matter.

Anyway, there's no precedence that Output is setting with their return policy. Audio Damage for better or worse has done the same thing.

As much as I'd like a demo to exist, I'm okay that it doesn't. Its not the end of the world.

I'm sure in another week or two, there'll be twice as many reviews and video tutorials going over exactly what this does, that will make it hard to be an uninformed user before buying, and then... there's the return policy.

The price is the price. Even if there was a demo, if the price is an issue, then a demo wouldn't change that. This is not the world's most complex in features plugin that you can't see what this can do right now so a demo won't magically convince you that you should pay full price.

[EnochLight]

I’m not sure how you can NOT think policies like this are hostile to consumers, but whatever.

Because I look at it in absolute terms, not relative terms, so if I am happy pay for hardware up-front, there is no reason not to be happy to pay for software up-front, as long as I can return it if it doesn't do what I want/need it to.

Most people here in this forum (and I’d wager most on the Internet on any music forum) trial and buy their wares from the Internet. Plugin manufacturers know this.

As I said yesterday, maybe it's how Output separate their preferred customers from the great unwashed?

Are we talking hardware from a shop? No, we’re talking software from the Internet. The precedence that Output is demonstrating should concern consumers, IMHO.

We are talking my money and other people's products. It's not about what it is or where I get it from, it's about me and what I'm willing to do. To be fair, when I buy something from a shop, I at least get to play with it first but that is rarely sufficiently illuminating and I do return stuff now and then. I'd also point out that I do buy a fair bit of hardware on line, from overseas sellers, where returns can be difficult and expensive. If that doesn't stop me, this certainly won't.

It’s fine - I get that you have no issue submitting to corporate America’s policies. Your buying habits fit their business model. It works for you.

It’s certainly a consumer-hostile policy, though (using most other software manufacturers/plugin policies as a metric).

[BONES]

Perhaps hostile to a certain type of consumer but not to every consumer. I'd suggest Steinberg's use of the eLicenser dongle for Cubase is far more onerous, yet large numbers of people submit to it. There was a time when I would never have even contemplated any software that required a dongle but I eventually worked out that it was costing me more than it was costing them, so I got over it.

[pinki]

Over at vi-control there is a whole bizarre world of people spending huge sums of money on software they cannot demo and cannot return if they don’t like it and then cannot resell. It’s insane. And $149 is peanuts in comparison to an Orchestral Tools library. The amazing thing is how many people go along with it...Spitfire is a very very successful company.

In that light Output are cool.

OT: Arcade is just wonderful

[EnochLight]

There was a time when I would never have even contemplated any software that required a dongle but I eventually worked out that it was costing me more than it was costing them, so I got over it.

A dongle is one thing, sure. I'm 100% for devs protecting their wares so people can't pirate it. But these days, "dongle" means having your computer authorized for offline use without having to actually stick anything in a USB port. It's so easy, it's silly to complain, IMHO.

I hope that most consumers resist the shift to no free demo/trial in software, though. As consumers, we already give way too much away to embrace hostile practices like that.

Full disclosure: I bought a couple of Output's Kontakt libraries before (Rev and Exhale). Returned them before the return window closed. I do subscribe to Arcade, though.

[elxsound]

There was a time when I would never have even contemplated any software that required a dongle but I eventually worked out that it was costing me more than it was costing them, so I got over it.

A dongle is one thing, sure. I'm 100% for devs protecting their wares so people can't pirate it. But these days, "dongle" means having your computer authorized for offline use without having to actually stick anything in a USB port. It's so easy, it's silly to complain, IMHO.

I hope that most consumers resist the shift to no free demo/trial in software, though. As consumers, we already give way too much away to embrace hostile practices like that.

Full disclosure: I bought a couple of Output's Kontakt libraries before (Rev and Exhale). Returned them before the return window closed. I do subscribe to Arcade, though.

I don’t think there’s any shift to no demo/trial available. There are so few companies that do this outside of sample libraries that it shouldn’t be considered a trend.

Like others have said, its probably just a result of them working this way as a sample library only content developer.