Output - Introducing PORTAL: A Granular FX Plugin

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
lwj
KVRist
208 posts since 3 Feb, 2018

Post Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:09 am

Being able to return it no questions asked is as good as a demo policy. Beats demos that disrupt the sound every so often if you ask me.

It may also make their business a lot easier to manage? Have a simple license system, not have to support two versions, not have to hire a guy to manage all of that.. I don’t know. I’m pretty sure Output put some thought into it though, lol.

And yeah the price is the price. It’s too expensive for me, I haven’t been a customer with them so 150 for a granulizer is asking a lot. As good as it may be. But again I don’t assume the manufacturer is either stupid or hellbent on crushing the poor consumer. Good tools are worth it. And I think with music software especially we’re becoming ridiculously spoilt where we expect everything to be world class for $29,-.

I’m keeping my eye on it though.

pinki
KVRian
697 posts since 2 Nov, 2006

Re: Output - Introducing PORTAL: A Granular FX Plugin

Post Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:08 pm

lwj wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:09 am
And I think with music software especially we’re becoming ridiculously spoilt where we expect everything to be world class for $29,-.
This.

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BONES
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8339 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Output - Introducing PORTAL: A Granular FX Plugin

Post Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:45 pm

EnochLight wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:06 am
But these days, "dongle" means having your computer authorized for offline use without having to actually stick anything in a USB port.
Not with Cubase, it isn't. After buying the software, I had to go and buy an eLicenser USB dongle before I could activate it and it now takes up one of my precious USB ports. It also seems buggy in that I sometimes have to remove and replug it.
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EnochLight
KVRian
1296 posts since 21 Mar, 2012 from your mom

Re: Output - Introducing PORTAL: A Granular FX Plugin

Post Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:58 pm

BONES wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:45 pm
EnochLight wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:06 am
But these days, "dongle" means having your computer authorized for offline use without having to actually stick anything in a USB port.
Not with Cubase, it isn't. After buying the software, I had to go and buy an eLicenser USB dongle before I could activate it and it now takes up one of my precious USB ports. It also seems buggy in that I sometimes have to remove and replug it.
Yeah, it's unfortunate they're still behind the times. DAW such as Reason has had virtual dongles (offline authorization) for many years now, and its copy protection is 100% unbreakable. It's crazy that a company as large as Steinberg are using such an archaic approach.
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8339 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Output - Introducing PORTAL: A Granular FX Plugin

Post Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:15 pm

The truly annoying part of it is that no matter what you do, your product gets cracked in a day or two anyway so the only people you end up inconveniencing are your paying customers. I used to be against things like iLok, too, but after softening my stance I've discovered that iLok is actually pretty good. e.g. I am currently demoing Monument Bass and it requires iLok but the advantage that gives the demo is that you get full, unrestricted use of it for 20 days, then the license expires. To me that is the perfect demo and it's also why I don't mind Output's policy - you get the full, unrestricted version to try with no 20 minute time-out or annoying noise or saving restrictions or anything else so instead of just noodling around with it, you can throw it into works in progress or existing pieces, knowing that if you decide to buy it you won't have to go back and re-build patches or anything else. It's a good compromise.
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Acer Switch5 (Core i5, 8GB RAM, Win10),Behringer QX1002USB, Cubase Pro 10, DUNE, Hive, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Substance, Arcsyn, Seaboard Block, Lightpad Block M, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno, Skulpt.

pk-1
KVRer
23 posts since 1 May, 2018

Re: Output - Introducing PORTAL: A Granular FX Plugin

Post Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:25 am

EnochLight wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:58 pm
DAW such as Reason has had virtual dongles (offline authorization) for many years now, and its copy protection is 100% unbreakable. It's crazy that a company as large as Steinberg are using such an archaic approach.
This has nothing to do with archaic or modern.

Reason registers to the hardware of your computer, Cubase to the hardware of your dongle. What you prefer depends on how you want to use the license.

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EnochLight
KVRian
1296 posts since 21 Mar, 2012 from your mom

Re: Output - Introducing PORTAL: A Granular FX Plugin

Post Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:05 am

BONES wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:15 pm
I am currently demoing Monument Bass and it requires iLok but the advantage that gives the demo is that you get full, unrestricted use of it for 20 days, then the license expires. To me that is the perfect demo and it's also why I don't mind Output's policy - you get the full, unrestricted version to try with no 20 minute time-out or annoying noise or saving restrictions or anything else so instead of just noodling around with it, you can throw it into works in progress or existing pieces, knowing that if you decide to buy it you won't have to go back and re-build patches or anything else. It's a good compromise.
Yeah, us Reasoners have been getting 30-day unrestricted demos with Rack Extensions for many, many years. That's probably the best demo policy on the market, IMHO. I wouldn't be averse to Output using virtual dongles (whether they're iLok or otherwise) if it means getting rid of this silly "must buy to try" policy.
pk-1 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:25 am
EnochLight wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:58 pm
DAW such as Reason has had virtual dongles (offline authorization) for many years now, and its copy protection is 100% unbreakable. It's crazy that a company as large as Steinberg are using such an archaic approach.
This has nothing to do with archaic or modern.

Reason registers to the hardware of your computer, Cubase to the hardware of your dongle. What you prefer depends on how you want to use the license.
It has everything to do with being archaic, IMHO. Hardware dongles are a pain in the ass, easy to lose, and inflate the cost of the software requiring them. At least make them optional - that's the best route, really.
Windows 10 | Reason 10.4 | Studio One 4.5 | Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel i7 3770k Quad-Core @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion

perpetual3
KVRian
830 posts since 28 Sep, 2012

Re: Output - Introducing PORTAL: A Granular FX Plugin

Post Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:30 am

EnochLight wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:05 am
BONES wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:15 pm
I am currently demoing Monument Bass and it requires iLok but the advantage that gives the demo is that you get full, unrestricted use of it for 20 days, then the license expires. To me that is the perfect demo and it's also why I don't mind Output's policy - you get the full, unrestricted version to try with no 20 minute time-out or annoying noise or saving restrictions or anything else so instead of just noodling around with it, you can throw it into works in progress or existing pieces, knowing that if you decide to buy it you won't have to go back and re-build patches or anything else. It's a good compromise.
Yeah, us Reasoners have been getting 30-day unrestricted demos with Rack Extensions for many, many years. That's probably the best demo policy on the market, IMHO. I wouldn't be averse to Output using virtual dongles (whether they're iLok or otherwise) if it means getting rid of this silly "must buy to try" policy.
pk-1 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:25 am
EnochLight wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:58 pm
DAW such as Reason has had virtual dongles (offline authorization) for many years now, and its copy protection is 100% unbreakable. It's crazy that a company as large as Steinberg are using such an archaic approach.
This has nothing to do with archaic or modern.

Reason registers to the hardware of your computer, Cubase to the hardware of your dongle. What you prefer depends on how you want to use the license.
It has everything to do with being archaic, IMHO. Hardware dongles are a pain in the ass, easy to lose, and inflate the cost of the software requiring them. At least make them optional - that's the best route, really.
Absolutely archaic. Somehow I lost my iLok dongle → hassle. Kush audio refused to give me a new license to replace the one that was lost since they issue two with every plugin. I love their plugins, but it soured me to the company.

But I think machine based iLok can also be a hassle. When my logic board died, it took a lot of time to contact each plugin developer to explain the situation and ask if I could get a new license since the one attached to that machine is lost forever. Thankfully nearly all plugin manufactures timely agreed. PSP initially gave me some push back, in my opinion, but eventually gave me a new license. I chalked it up to miscommunication due to cultural differences, since I am a customer of theirs since the initial release of vintage warmer (which I still use in every project).

U-he does it best.

pk-1
KVRer
23 posts since 1 May, 2018

Re: Output - Introducing PORTAL: A Granular FX Plugin

Post Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:51 am

EnochLight wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:05 am
It has everything to do with being archaic, IMHO. Hardware dongles are a pain in the ass, easy to lose, and inflate the cost of the software requiring them.
No. If you need access to your license(s) from different computers, dongles are the preferred solution. Besides, they are far more robust than computers and agnostic to hardware upgrades.

I do agree though that the DRM provider should give you a choice of attaching the license to your computer hardware, a dongle, or to an online validation procedure, like the latest generation of iLOK licenses.

pk-1
KVRer
23 posts since 1 May, 2018

Re: Output - Introducing PORTAL: A Granular FX Plugin

Post Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:59 am

perpetual3 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:30 am
Absolutely archaic. Somehow I lost my iLok dongle → hassle.
So, what next? If you loose your car or apartment keys, you're going to blame the car manufacturer or landlord for using "archaic" access technologies?

The examples you mention are related to customer service and have nothing to do with DRM technology ...

Neon Breath
KVRAF
3291 posts since 15 Sep, 2010

Re: Output - Introducing PORTAL: A Granular FX Plugin

Post Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:00 am

Man as usual this thread totally derailed into a messy copy protection dongle debate, instead of discussions about the actual sound, qualities & creative potential of the plugin. ..
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Sampleconstruct
KVRAF
14690 posts since 12 Oct, 2008 from Here and there

Re: Output - Introducing PORTAL: A Granular FX Plugin

Post Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:07 am

Moses needed an iLok to get access to the 10 commandments.

Neon Breath
KVRAF
3291 posts since 15 Sep, 2010

Re: Output - Introducing PORTAL: A Granular FX Plugin

Post Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:09 am

Simon, did you get Portal? I didn't yet, waiting for more reviews and opinions about its sonic qualities.
Last edited by Neon Breath on Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
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EnochLight
KVRian
1296 posts since 21 Mar, 2012 from your mom

Re: Output - Introducing PORTAL: A Granular FX Plugin

Post Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:31 am

pk-1 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:51 am
EnochLight wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:05 am
It has everything to do with being archaic, IMHO. Hardware dongles are a pain in the ass, easy to lose, and inflate the cost of the software requiring them.
No. If you need access to your license(s) from different computers, dongles are the preferred solution. Besides, they are far more robust than computers and agnostic to hardware upgrades.

I do agree though that the DRM provider should give you a choice of attaching the license to your computer hardware, a dongle, or to an online validation procedure, like the latest generation of iLOK licenses.
Well, you truncated my quote and left out the most important part:
At least make them optional - that's the best route, really.
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ictools
Banned
108 posts since 17 May, 2019

Re: Output - Introducing PORTAL: A Granular FX Plugin

Post Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:36 am

pk-1 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:59 am
perpetual3 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:30 am
Absolutely archaic. Somehow I lost my iLok dongle → hassle.
So, what next? If you loose your car or apartment keys, you're going to blame the car manufacturer or landlord for using "archaic" access technologies?

The examples you mention are related to customer service and have nothing to do with DRM technology ...
It might seem that your comparison between apples and oranges are of the same variety, but they are absolutely different fruits altogether.

1. Dongles are made of cheaper materials, easier to break.
2. Dongles are easier to steal, they make no noise and sit openly in a computer port.
3. Dongles are prone to damage via water, electricity, brute force and wear out over time.
4. Dongles are easier to lose, they are small, don't jingle and not kept in the front pocket before use.
-----
5. Dongles get outdated and new versions come out.
6. Dongles take up an extra port on an already limited laptop or computer.
7. Dongles cost extra money, nearly $50, to use software that can cost less.
8. Dongle replacement is a hassle.
9. Dongles require plugging in and out during usage.
10. Dongles require on-line management and software updates.
11. Dongles require system files, registry, scheduled tasks and background processing.

Please list the pros to the cons, because I'm having a difficult time thinking of some.

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