It's a good idea but I'm not sure I'll have time to do that.
It might be a good idea to have one of our users do that and create a youtube video comparing version 231 to 233 with 8 detune voices playing chords. There will probably be a beta test release and one of our beta testers could do it.
Fathom Synth Development Thread
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1584 posts since 25 Mar, 2017
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- KVRAF
- 2066 posts since 11 Aug, 2012 from omfr morf form romf frmo
A suggestion regarding Mono cannibalizing sales. Stop updating it. A synth freebie is supposed to be a taster of the workflow and quality of the paid version, but Mono provides nearly a full meal (contrast with one-oscillator Zebralette, Podolski). The AVX/SSE optimizations would be a great way to add value to the Pro version without taking existing features away from Mono.
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- KVRist
- 377 posts since 21 Mar, 2012 from Slovakia
I think that mono version should stay as it is without support, no updates anymore. If users don't read it is their problem. If there will be performance update for mono I'm sure most of users will use free mono version.
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- KVRian
- 996 posts since 22 Apr, 2004 from Switzerland
A performance update is not a feature imo. It's a selling point. The whole point is getting those users, that don't read, to buy the synth. That goes better if the performance is great.
Nobody buying it is a problem for you and me, if that means development will be stopped or slowed to a minimum.
Nobody buying it is a problem for you and me, if that means development will be stopped or slowed to a minimum.
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- KVRian
- 1498 posts since 21 Nov, 2005 from The Netherlands
AFAIK features will be stripped from it, there is barely any incentive to move to pro now.
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- KVRian
- 1498 posts since 21 Nov, 2005 from The Netherlands
Pro and Extreme get AVX, as stated by Everett. Please read back.
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- KVRAF
- 3735 posts since 17 Sep, 2016
The thing that seems to improve performance the most for me is to reduce the polyphony count in a patch. Also setting the max CPU per track has a similar effect, and seems to result in voice stealing to stay below the voice limit.
Everything else that I have tried, including draft mode, results in a slight performance gain. But if I leave the polyphony high, I run into trouble regardless, especially when playing pads. That is even if I turn off detune for all oscillators.
Everything else that I have tried, including draft mode, results in a slight performance gain. But if I leave the polyphony high, I run into trouble regardless, especially when playing pads. That is even if I turn off detune for all oscillators.
Windows 10 and too many plugins
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- KVRian
- 1498 posts since 21 Nov, 2005 from The Netherlands
I wasn't answering your question, but a response to the comment made by Blaster.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1584 posts since 25 Mar, 2017
zzz00m, AVX should fix your issues since the detune processor is what is causing up 99% of the CPU overload. And this is the code that is now completely replaced with Intel AVX parallel instructions in the new release coming out soon.
Good points about Mono above and thanks for your thoughts.
Couple more points about mono. Features will be removed from mono in the next release. People will complain but there is no choice. Mono is preventing people from buying pro. This is preventing the company from advancing so there is no choice but to remove features regardless of the opinion and reaction to it. 99% of the time a synth track is mono so why buy pro at all.
Great point about updating mono in step with pro which ended up being a serious mistake from a business perspective.
I have to admit that Mono was my idea, so I bear the responsibility. Realistically who can blame someone for using a free product that is offered to them. Releasing Mono with a feature set so close to Pro was my own doing so any blame rests on me not on the Mono users. However, it was a mistake and it needs to be corrected quickly and drastically regardless of any objections.
So here is what is happening with Mono.
All oscillators will be removed except Basic, Saw and Additive. Wave Draw is gone and so is Wave Table. All effects are gone except Chorus and the basic Reverb. All Filters are gone except the basic low pass, high pass and band pass.
Furthermore, one complaint by Mono by users who do not go Pro is that Fathom is too complex. After these changes this will no longer be the case. The new Mono will function simply as a very basic modular subtractive synth. Its purpose will be to demo the sound quality and modular signal flow, nothing more. Access to advanced features such as Wave Draw and Wave Table will only be provided to people supporting the project.
With all due respect to Mono users, if anyone complains they will be directed to this thread where other users can explain to them that using the product for free has literally stopped all future progress on features for everyone else, and in order to advance beyond this state we had to take decisive action.
It is actually very lucky that the upcoming version 2.32 fixes the editing audio glitches. So if people try to simply distribute the older versions of Mono they will be stuck with the versions with these audio glitches. Version 2.32 has a new UI thread processor which performs all buffer calculations in the UI thread which completely removes all editing audio glitches. My current testing proves that it runs as smooth as silk even when you drag the mouse aggressively. And this new feature will only be upgraded in the Pro product and the Mono with reduced features.
Performance improvements will definitely not go into Mono. First of all the the AVX code took a lot of work, more work than any other feature in Fathom's history and there's no way I'm giving it away for free. AVX will not go into the CM release either since the CM release has the same problem as Mono, there's no incentive to buy the product. Second Fathom's performance issues are caused by detune voices and ultimately by polyphony which is not an issue for mono unless someone is using an insane number of Fathom tracks, in which case they should not be using the free version.
Good points about Mono above and thanks for your thoughts.
Couple more points about mono. Features will be removed from mono in the next release. People will complain but there is no choice. Mono is preventing people from buying pro. This is preventing the company from advancing so there is no choice but to remove features regardless of the opinion and reaction to it. 99% of the time a synth track is mono so why buy pro at all.
Great point about updating mono in step with pro which ended up being a serious mistake from a business perspective.
I have to admit that Mono was my idea, so I bear the responsibility. Realistically who can blame someone for using a free product that is offered to them. Releasing Mono with a feature set so close to Pro was my own doing so any blame rests on me not on the Mono users. However, it was a mistake and it needs to be corrected quickly and drastically regardless of any objections.
So here is what is happening with Mono.
All oscillators will be removed except Basic, Saw and Additive. Wave Draw is gone and so is Wave Table. All effects are gone except Chorus and the basic Reverb. All Filters are gone except the basic low pass, high pass and band pass.
Furthermore, one complaint by Mono by users who do not go Pro is that Fathom is too complex. After these changes this will no longer be the case. The new Mono will function simply as a very basic modular subtractive synth. Its purpose will be to demo the sound quality and modular signal flow, nothing more. Access to advanced features such as Wave Draw and Wave Table will only be provided to people supporting the project.
With all due respect to Mono users, if anyone complains they will be directed to this thread where other users can explain to them that using the product for free has literally stopped all future progress on features for everyone else, and in order to advance beyond this state we had to take decisive action.
It is actually very lucky that the upcoming version 2.32 fixes the editing audio glitches. So if people try to simply distribute the older versions of Mono they will be stuck with the versions with these audio glitches. Version 2.32 has a new UI thread processor which performs all buffer calculations in the UI thread which completely removes all editing audio glitches. My current testing proves that it runs as smooth as silk even when you drag the mouse aggressively. And this new feature will only be upgraded in the Pro product and the Mono with reduced features.
Performance improvements will definitely not go into Mono. First of all the the AVX code took a lot of work, more work than any other feature in Fathom's history and there's no way I'm giving it away for free. AVX will not go into the CM release either since the CM release has the same problem as Mono, there's no incentive to buy the product. Second Fathom's performance issues are caused by detune voices and ultimately by polyphony which is not an issue for mono unless someone is using an insane number of Fathom tracks, in which case they should not be using the free version.
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- KVRAF
- 1574 posts since 21 Nov, 2018
You really need some way to get the users emails so you can send out newsletters informing everyone of updates and offers/sales you have, even if it's a sign up to the newsletter before being able to download the free versionFathomSynth wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:38 pm Performance improvements will definitely not go into Mono. First of all the the AVX code took a lot of work, more work than any other feature in Fathom's history and there's no way I'm giving it away for free. AVX will not go into the CM release either since the CM release has the same problem as Mono, there's no incentive to buy the product. Second Fathom's performance issues are caused by detune voices and ultimately by polyphony which is not an issue for mono unless someone is using an insane number of Fathom tracks, in which case they should not be using the free version.
The website also has issues from a usability perspective, too many different pages about the synth and you have to navigate through a bunch of pages before you can actually purchase
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- KVRAF
- 3735 posts since 17 Sep, 2016
I also noticed a lot of reviews and such on the web page highlighting the mono version and Fathom CM. Touting the benefits of one of the best freeware synths. More so than the Pro version. Counterproductive to the business model?
https://www.fathomsynth.com/home#/press/
https://www.fathomsynth.com/home#/press/
Windows 10 and too many plugins
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1584 posts since 25 Mar, 2017
Dude there's a "Buy" button at the very top of the web site.
I can't make it much easier than that.
Yes we already have an email list which goes out to all users for major releases. However I tend to keep that to a minimum out of respect for people's emails. Obviously the Intel AVX release is a huge deal so news of that will go out in the email.
Yes, I realize everyone loves the free Mono version and CM especially the reviewers. However, there's a difference between great buzz and purchases. If no one buys the product then all the publicity in the world is pointless. Counter productive to the business model is a huge understatement. 1,000 mono downloads per month with no sales is pure insanity. Either people buy Fathom or there will be no Fathom. It's that simple.
I can't make it much easier than that.
Yes we already have an email list which goes out to all users for major releases. However I tend to keep that to a minimum out of respect for people's emails. Obviously the Intel AVX release is a huge deal so news of that will go out in the email.
Yes, I realize everyone loves the free Mono version and CM especially the reviewers. However, there's a difference between great buzz and purchases. If no one buys the product then all the publicity in the world is pointless. Counter productive to the business model is a huge understatement. 1,000 mono downloads per month with no sales is pure insanity. Either people buy Fathom or there will be no Fathom. It's that simple.
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- KVRAF
- 1574 posts since 21 Nov, 2018
I'm trying to help youFathomSynth wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:31 pm Dude there's a "Buy" button at the very top of the web site.
I can't make it much easier than that.
If I click buy, that's 1 click
I'm then presented with 3 options, that will be another click and another page
If I choose buy Direct I then have to click again on Fathom, where I'm then presented with another page before I can actually purchase
This is bad design from usability and will put users off and confuse them, you wouldn't use this kind of design in synths and you really shouldn't on websites
Even the "why go pro ?" button it takes the user away to another page and that click may end up losing their interest, you should really keep it all on a single page in compact form
It's like the NI website where they don't show all their products and you have to know of the product to search for it, it completely breaks the experience for the customer and if they didn't know Straylight (for example) existed they still wouldn't know it existed from looking at the NI website
Don't take it as an insult, it's just advice to try and help you give a better experience to customers and users on the website and I do have experience in this line of work