Fathom Synth Development Thread

[RPH]

Dude there's a "Buy" button at the very top of the web site.

I can't make it much easier than that.

Hi Everett,

We're of course only trying to help out, any way we can.
I also named the number of steps needed to actually buy Fathom a couple of pages back:

- I still find your site a bit unclear, too many steps to get to buy imo. Four steps, then I see the actual payment page
Example: https://www.vengeance-sound.com/plugins.php
They put most info on the frontpage, with price and a buy icon. It takes 1 step to buy there.

I counted from the main site, when going to "https://www.fathomsynth.com/", compared to e.g. vengeance site.
Site statistics could tell you what people are doing on your site, where they go mostly (and maybe why).

Just my two cents, hope you don't feel offended or so.

Rob.

[Inversion Of Control]

Everett - you are talking about CPU efficiency, what about RAM hogging problems, do you have any ideas how to make it better?

[glokraw]

Mono is preventing people from buying pro. This is preventing the company from advancing so there is no choice but to remove features regardless of the opinion and reaction to it.

Deadbeats and slackers will choose not to buy Fathom Pro,
and it's peer competitors, but nothing prevents them.
In their dullard world view, they are entitled,
they 'deserve a break today'.

Low income musicians with dignity and common sense will
use the mono or CM Fathom, while saving up for Pro,
(not that it would take very long)
and some musicians in actual 3rd-world poverty might do likewise,
over a longer timeframe.

But all developers are dealing with the same scenario,
presenting a variety of free products, demos,
and sales extravagandas to solidify their positions.
You are entering a crowded market, with excellent
competition. Rising through the ranks to your desired place
in the market, will require innovation, product support,
and steady improvements, all of which you've demonstrated.

I imagine that if IK, NI, and Waves all shut down tonight,
music would still be produced in the morning,
but with fewer headaches.
Cheers

[glokraw]

It's like the NI website

No , it's not. Everett has no massive teams of support
drones and lackies attempting customer service,
product updates. and sales presentations.
AND no Native Access, the bobbing turd that works
or fails to work seemingly on which part bobs up
when you prod it

Native Access need it's own steaming turd smily

NI is all about gathering as much personal data as they can,
while controlling every aspect of you installing what you bought.

Fathom is about a great synth. I myself could care less
about the number of clicks to buy something, regardless
of who the vendor is. If a product is worth my money
and time, clicks are not an issue.
Cheers

[FathomSynth]

Edit: OK, thanks glokraw, you beat me to it.

I'm not taking it as an insult I'm just saying I'm not changing it.

The buy button at the top is one click. I can't reduce that click to zero clicks because the web site can't read your mind so you have to click on the buy button for it to go to the buy page.

Then once you go to the buy page there has to be one more click for you to decide if you want to buy it on Seaweed Audio or on Shopify. I can't reduce that click to zero clicks because the web site can't read your mind and know which place you want to buy it from, so you have to click on a button to make a choice.

Once you go to Buy on Seaweed Audio you have to click on which product you want. I can't reduce that click either because the web site can't read your mind and know which product you want to buy.

Once you click on the product you want to buy Square Space shows you the product price and details. I can't reduce that click because I don't own Square Space and I don't have access to their code. I can't reduce any of the clicks after that for the same reason.

That's 3 clicks not including the actual payment steps clicks. The last synth I bought took at least 47 clicks and Fathom takes 3. I'm not seeing an overwhelming reason to worry about this.

The reason people are not buying pro is because the free product does everything they want, not because it takes 3 mouse clicks instead of 2. Also, if I spend time on anything it is going to be programming Intel AVX instructions so Fathom is 5 times faster, not redesigning my web site for the third time.

It's not an insult at all, I just don't agree that clicking my mouse three times is confusing.

RPH, you were right about that at the time but that was before I put the buy button at the very top,
and the upgrades button on the very front.

Digivolt, You've made some really good suggestions so far, so I don't want to frustrate anyone from speaking up here. But I just have to be honest about the fact that (after having redesigned the entire web site) I have to spend time now on critical issues such as speed and fixing the Mono cannibalism.

If there is something specific on the web site you can identify, then of course I will make the change, but just saying there are too many clicks does not make sense to an engineer. Which click?

[FathomSynth]

Inversion, There's not much I can do about memory that has not already been done.

The settings page has options to set the actual size of all the audio buffers so you can use that to reduce memory to almost absolute zero. The only disadvantage is that you have to read the manual to understand it.

Also, most of of the memory is the GUI itself and if you set Hold GUI in Memory to False then all the GUI memory will be deleted as soon as you close the GUI this eliminating the problem. But again, you have to read the manual to know about it.

I value everyone's opinion on the sales matter and believe it or not it is comforting to read any comments at all here regardless of which opinions you share since at least I know people are listening.

I realize in the long run my company is the new kid on the block and I have to pay my dues and slowly climb my way up to be a global player, like all the other successful companies, indeed I welcome that challenge. However, there is also a practical matter. No one can write software unless they have a place to live. If people want new features the Mono users have to buy the product. If they don't there's nothing I can do.

This applies to new development, I will always provide product support and bug fixes regardless.

[Digivolt]

I myself could care less
about the number of clicks to buy something, regardless
of who the vendor is. If a product is worth my money
and time, clicks are not an issue.
Cheers

Not everybody is like this though and not everybody is tech savvy to navigate multiple pages, obviously it's not problem for us, because we've bought the synth, but clearly there's a tonne of users of the mono/CM version who for one reason or another are not buying the synth, the design of the website will be one of those reasons (don't confuse this with being the only reason). I'm just offering advice to try and help generate more interest/sales which in turn leads to ensured long term development of the synth because clearly there is a problem when this relatively new synth, has a 200+ page thread on KVR yet minimal sales when and clearly it isn't a problem with the synth because we all rate it highly.

Digivolt, You've made some really good suggestions so far, so I don't want to frustrate anyone from speaking up here. But I just have to be honest about the fact that (after having redesigned the entire web site) I have to spend time now on critical issues such as speed and fixing the Mono cannibalism.

If there is something specific on the web site you can identify, then of course I will make the change, but just saying their too many clicks does not make sense to an engineer. Which click?

Don't worry about it, I understand web development takes away resources from synth development so don't think I'm demanding you change the website, that's entirely your call, I'm just trying to offer advice from experience as I want to see the synth get out there more to other users

I will send you a PM on some suggestions if that's okay as I don't want to clutter your synth thread with web usability tips

[FathomSynth]

OK, Thanks for your input.

I do agree with the principle behind what your saying, namely that the web experience can have a huge impact on general impressions of the product. That is for sure true.

Sorry to keep harping on the sales issue. I just want to make sure everyone understands the choice some people are making for everyone else. I think everyone understands that now so I'll stop bringing it up.

None of this applies to regular users who have been amazingly supportive. The upgrades continue to be very popular so I'm always surprised by how much support there is consistently from the Pro users, they are truly in a completely different category. Same with all the KVR members.

[courtjestr]

Edit: OK, thanks glokraw, you beat me to it.

I'm not taking it as an insult I'm just saying I'm not changing it.

The buy button at the top is one click. I can't reduce that click to zero clicks because the web site can't read your mind so you have to click on the buy button for it to go to the buy page.

Then once you go to the buy page there has to be one more click for you to decide if you want to buy it on Seaweed Audio or on Shopify. I can't reduce that click to zero clicks because the web site can't read your mind and know which place you want to buy it from, so you have to click on a button to make a choice.

The only thing I might change is the order of buttons on the buy page. I would probably put the "WHY GO PRO" button after the BUY buttons or on another page by itself. If I have already clicked on the BUY menu, I probably don't need convincing to go PRO. I wanna get to that page where I can give you money as fast as possible. Clicking on "WHY GO PRO" takes me away from the buy page, and may give me time to have seconds thoughts (perish the thought).

To be honest, when I first purchased Fathom, this page somewhat confused me. I was already convinced I needed Fathom; what I wanted to know was how much it was going to cost me.

[FathomSynth]

oh, good point.

That belongs on the download page not the buy page, thanks.
Maybe that was what he was talking about.

Edit: OK I simplified the Buy page a little. Removed the Why Go Pro and moved everything else closer to the top. Same clicks but much less scrolling.

[BBFG#]

I just want to know for sure if it will continue to work on my current systems.
Without some type of demo, relying on specs alone and user comments is pretty much a no-go for me. Especially when some users devolve into negative prejoratives for not buying without question. Not a deadbeat or a slacker. Just don't want to repeat past lessons learned from Wusik and Spectrasonics.
That's what prevents me from buying it right now.

(But I keep reading this thread because I'm interested in buying.)

[FathomSynth]

Mono will still have the exact same audio engine as Pro and nothing about that will be different.

It will not, however, have any Intel AVX, that will be only Pro.

I understand first hand what it is like to be burned by a synth which sounds great and looks like a million bucks on the web site and then you buy it and the audio sucks or you can't really do anything. That is why I will keep Fathom Mono for free and available so people can try it and get a good idea what it would be like to drive Pro.

The problem is that Mono is too good and basically functions as a completely perfect mono synth and so there is no reason to buy pro. And that is what will be changing. All but the most basic features will be pulled from Mono. That way if people like the audio quality and love the modular signal flow they will be forced to buy Pro in order to progress with it in their music.

I don't mean to pressure you, but keep in mind if you buy Pro now before Intel AVX Parallel Processing comes out you will get it for free, but if you wait until it is released it will const you $125.00.

And if I finish testing it early and release it ahead of schedule you will be out of luck. Also the $125.00 version will have very strict licensing so there will be absolutely no way to get a black copy to try out.

[Digivolt]

oh, good point.

That belongs on the download page not the buy page, thanks.
Maybe that was what he was talking about.

Edit: OK I simplified the Buy page a little. Removed the Why Go Pro and moved everything else closer to the top. Same clicks but much less scrolling.

Sorry to bring it up again but... You've pretty much done what I was going to suggest to you The only other thing was around why you have 2 different methods to pay when one of them (the one without apple pay etc) is redundant, because shopify covers all payment methods that "direct" offers. Why don't you just use the shopify method on its own and have the "buy" tab lead straight into the store page instead ? It seems small but you'd surprised how many users decide to disengage from a website when presented with too many options for certain things

[FathomSynth]

Hmmm, that's actually very interesting.

So you're saying have the Buy shortcut button at the top go directly to the local product page for an immediate purchase and skip the fancy buy page entirely.

And have other places in the web site go to the buy page with the Shopify option, such as the download go to that page, for people that want to use Shopify or Google Pay.

That could work.

[tony10000]

I see Fathom Mono on PlugIn Boutique. Ever think of selling the paid version there? I am sure that would increase sales due to their marketing.