I'm willing to do that on KVR, but a lot of places take a big cut. That could actually make matters much worse for me if sales drop and I have to wonder if it's because they are not even being reported by some third party web site.
Digivolt, OK, try it again now on the live web site.
I added the Buy Now button to the very top of both the download and support pages which goes to the buy page with the shopify option.
However, the Buy button at the very top goes directly to the products page to actually buy it immediately.
Fathom Synth Development Thread
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1584 posts since 25 Mar, 2017
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- KVRAF
- 1574 posts since 21 Nov, 2018
Okay here's what I'd doFathomSynth wrote: Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:15 am Hmmm, that's actually very interesting.
So you're saying have the Buy shortcut button at the top go directly to the local product page for an immediate purchase and skip the fancy buy page entirely.
And have other places in the web site go to the buy page with the Shopify option, such as the download go to that page, for people that want to use Shopify or Google Pay.
That could work.
Change the landing page to just display what's on https://www.fathomsynth.com/home (ie when I go to fathomsynth.com, the /home is the page I see)
Add a new tab up top for "Updates" going to https://www.fathomsynth.com/updates
Keep what you've just done for the Buy (I would change the wording from "Buy" to "Store") page
With regards to Shopify vs Squarespace option from what I understand Shopify offers the same options as Squarespace but the addition of Apple & Google pay yes ? In which case I would use store page purchases to divert to Shopify and do away with Squarespace as payment provider (unless you have to use them as part of your agreement with them), this would also mean you don't have to pay for the domain and webspace of "buyfathom.com" but if Squarespace allows the same options as Shopify, just choose one, you don't really need both
Hope it's helpful for you, I need to go get some sleep!
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- KVRAF
- 9105 posts since 28 Apr, 2013
This sidesteps the lack of somehow demoing the features included in Pro first, since admitting, mono will only be relative in sound.FathomSynth wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:42 pm Mono will still have the exact same audio engine as Pro and nothing about that will be different.
It will not, however, have any Intel AVX, that will be only Pro.
I understand first hand what it is like to be burned by a synth which sounds great and looks like a million bucks on the web site and then you buy it and the audio sucks or you can't really do anything. That is why I will keep Fathom Mono for free and available so people can try it and get a good idea what it would be like to drive Pro.
The problem is that Mono is too good and basically functions as a completely perfect mono synth and so there is no reason to buy pro. And that is what will be changing. All but the most basic features will be pulled from Mono. That way if people like the audio quality and love the modular signal flow they will be forced to buy Pro in order to progress with it in their music.
I don't mean to pressure you, but keep in mind if you buy Pro now before Intel AVX Parallel Processing comes out you will get it for free, but if you wait until it is released it will const you $125.00.
And if I finish testing it early and release it ahead of schedule you will be out of luck. Also the $125.00 version will have very strict licensing so there will be absolutely no way to get a black copy to try out.
And the "pressure" you infer actually pushes me against buying. Haven't given up yet. Even if you made it a timed or no program saved or added noise/silence limited version. It would represent the actual synth, not the scaled back mono version.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1584 posts since 25 Mar, 2017
I agree, that was the original idea. The strategy was to put a lot of the pro features into Mono except polyphony of course so that people could really take the synth for a real test drive. This policy was based on trust and respect.
The problem is it didn't work.
Mono has almost 1500 mono downloads a month and no one buys it. So basically what is happening to the mono users is ... instead of saying "Wow, this is a really great synth, now I want to buy the whole thing and play polyphonic chords." They are saying, "Wow this is a really great monophonic synth, I'll just use it the way it is, and thank goodness I don't have to buy it".
If only half the mono users purchased Fathom Pro I would have $20,000 a month to pay two DSP engineers and then proceed to make Fathom the best synth the world has ever seen. Instead, almost 1500 Mono users a month say, "hey man, thanks for the free synth, see ya later", and then only two percent buy it which is not enough to fund the project.
So I am pulling most of the features out of Fathom Mono. That way a small but significant percentage of people who are serious about their music, and are writing real released songs, and are smart enough to see how good Fathom Pro is based on a few Fathom Mono features will buy it, and all the other people who just want to horse around with free stuff will hopefully go away.
I'm glad to get your input though, because I think you represent most of the market.
The problem is it didn't work.
Mono has almost 1500 mono downloads a month and no one buys it. So basically what is happening to the mono users is ... instead of saying "Wow, this is a really great synth, now I want to buy the whole thing and play polyphonic chords." They are saying, "Wow this is a really great monophonic synth, I'll just use it the way it is, and thank goodness I don't have to buy it".
If only half the mono users purchased Fathom Pro I would have $20,000 a month to pay two DSP engineers and then proceed to make Fathom the best synth the world has ever seen. Instead, almost 1500 Mono users a month say, "hey man, thanks for the free synth, see ya later", and then only two percent buy it which is not enough to fund the project.
So I am pulling most of the features out of Fathom Mono. That way a small but significant percentage of people who are serious about their music, and are writing real released songs, and are smart enough to see how good Fathom Pro is based on a few Fathom Mono features will buy it, and all the other people who just want to horse around with free stuff will hopefully go away.
I'm glad to get your input though, because I think you represent most of the market.
Last edited by FathomSynth on Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRist
- 38 posts since 6 Sep, 2017
The idea that you're well on your way making the best soft synth ever and are on the verge of homelessness breaks my heart. What you're doing with mono is honestly a modest move in such circumstances. I really hope things pan out well, because I'm super excited for the features you want to add.
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- KVRAF
- 9105 posts since 28 Apr, 2013
To be fair, you should divide the downloads by the number of versions released in the same time.
Because I know I downloaded each version from 2.28 - 2.31 to keep up on the changes. Not to just "horse around". So if everyone was doing something like that also, it's really less than 400.
I can understand your reasoning with keeping it where it is. But doing that means there is no effective demo for the Pro version now. They are essentially now, two different products. Their only relationship now, is their developer. And that divide can only widen from here.
Because I know I downloaded each version from 2.28 - 2.31 to keep up on the changes. Not to just "horse around". So if everyone was doing something like that also, it's really less than 400.
I can understand your reasoning with keeping it where it is. But doing that means there is no effective demo for the Pro version now. They are essentially now, two different products. Their only relationship now, is their developer. And that divide can only widen from here.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1584 posts since 25 Mar, 2017
I see your point, but the time period I'm talking about was a month of 1300 mono downloads with no Fathom releases during that period, so it's a pretty accurate sample of the number of mono users per month.
Also, you're right, it really sucks that mono can't have more of the pro features. Remember that's the way I actually wanted it from the beginning. The mono features have to be enough so that people can hear the quality of the engine and see how the modular signal flow allows you to connect components, (which it will) but anything more than that is too risky. If there's too many features, and someone likes it so much they start using it in one of their songs then twelve hours goes buy and they've forgotten all about buying it.
Keep in mind Mono will still have the basic oscillators, great low pass, band pass and high pass filters and great chorus and reverb, which is more than enough to function as a fantastic little modular subtractive mono synth. But if someone wants to do the insane stuff like draw their own waveforms then they are going to have to support the project. I don't see any other way.
Also, you're right, it really sucks that mono can't have more of the pro features. Remember that's the way I actually wanted it from the beginning. The mono features have to be enough so that people can hear the quality of the engine and see how the modular signal flow allows you to connect components, (which it will) but anything more than that is too risky. If there's too many features, and someone likes it so much they start using it in one of their songs then twelve hours goes buy and they've forgotten all about buying it.
Keep in mind Mono will still have the basic oscillators, great low pass, band pass and high pass filters and great chorus and reverb, which is more than enough to function as a fantastic little modular subtractive mono synth. But if someone wants to do the insane stuff like draw their own waveforms then they are going to have to support the project. I don't see any other way.
Last edited by FathomSynth on Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 9105 posts since 28 Apr, 2013
I have no problem with your decision to make mono what it is.
I'm just saying that with no way to know how Pro will work on my systems now, you've put me on hold from buying it.
Sorry for being a skeptic here, but as I mentioned before, my history with certain software warrants it.
(I'm pretty sure it was IK-M that decided I was an "anamoly" because half of their 64 bit products wouldn't work on my factory direct Lenovos.)
I'm just saying that with no way to know how Pro will work on my systems now, you've put me on hold from buying it.
Sorry for being a skeptic here, but as I mentioned before, my history with certain software warrants it.
(I'm pretty sure it was IK-M that decided I was an "anamoly" because half of their 64 bit products wouldn't work on my factory direct Lenovos.)
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1584 posts since 25 Mar, 2017
How long have you been using Mono?
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- KVRAF
- 9105 posts since 28 Apr, 2013
Pretty sure 2.8 was my first try with it. But we've been in post-fire/mudslide season. So my playing and demoing has been cut to less than a quarter of my regular time.
At this point, I read this thread more often than I open mono.
At this point, I read this thread more often than I open mono.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1584 posts since 25 Mar, 2017
OK, then, how many total hours would you say you put into Mono?
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- KVRist
- 377 posts since 21 Mar, 2012 from Slovakia
That is a valid question. How much time you need in order to decide if you like what you see and hear? I think if you are familiar with synthesis and you already worked with other different synths I think you don't need more then hour. It is enough time to understand basic principle behind workflow, hear the sound and enogh time for you too find if it is have features you want or need.FathomSynth wrote: Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:44 amOK, then, how many total hours would you say you put into Mono?
If you are new to synthesis and you don't have much experience with any syntesizers then there is no way what so ever to decide if it is good for you or not.
Almost everyday you can see post what is the best synth for this and that or what is best synth overall. Those are quite stupid question. Because we are all different we have different reqiurements and taste. Not to mention that most of time problem is not synth but operator. I know somebody may feel offended by this statement but it is fact. Just look at some of KVR OSC participants like Taron, TheNeverScene, jasinky, Relik and som others hat proove that instrumnet used is not problem and they will beat most of us using any free synth while we other may use "world best commercial synth".
In the world of sample libraries it is normal that you do not have any chance to try instrument. You just watch and read reviews and listen to the examples. Not to mention most of them are NFR so you can't sale it if you do not like it. There are some company that are selling very limitied version for less so you buy it and then decide to go for full version. You just them pay difference in price instead of full price - some sort of upgrade path. So for Fathom there can be similar way. Have free very limited version. Then for example mono version for a certain price with option to upgrade to Pro and then upgrade price from Pro to Extreme (Leviathan
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- KVRAF
- 9105 posts since 28 Apr, 2013
A few at the start. Every time I decided to buy, another change was announced here and I decided to wait for that version. I didn't understand that each upgrade wasn't a mandatory pay for each version. Then, 2.3.1 hit and shortly after, this whole thing concerning AVX/AVX2 landed and has shifted me into indecision.
There have been at least three times I was ready to buy, but then another change would hit to make me think I better wait and see how that played out first.
This latest has put it in the buy it or forget it box for me. Doing due diligence to make sure Pro will work on my current systems is what's happening now.
And Mono 2.3.1 is not going to tell me that.
There have been at least three times I was ready to buy, but then another change would hit to make me think I better wait and see how that played out first.
This latest has put it in the buy it or forget it box for me. Doing due diligence to make sure Pro will work on my current systems is what's happening now.
And Mono 2.3.1 is not going to tell me that.
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- KVRist
- 283 posts since 6 Aug, 2017
Looking forward to the CPU patch! I bought Fathom something like a year ago and I've barely used it, partly because I'm not much of a synth person and partly because of the high CPU usage. Still, I wanted to support the project, and I'll buy an upgrade when the CPU patch is released.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1584 posts since 25 Mar, 2017
DrMEM, Thanks, I think you will like the AVX processing, also check if your processor supports it.
BBFG, With your experience I would imagine you have a very clear idea of what you are looking for in a synth, so a few minutes with Fathom Mono should tell you what you need to know. Trimming the features does not apply to you since you've already used the mono version with all the features. It comes down to whether or not it provides something valuable for your music. If I'm on the fence with a synth then I don't buy it. I only buy one if I'm blown away by it.
I recently did one of my own songs and decided not to use Fathom at all, only Omnisphere, Avenger, Diva, Sylenth and Spire. What happened is I ended up having to use Fathom on a some tracks because there were a couple things only it could do: Sample accurate modulations, complex envelopes, and original waveforms.
Trojak, very well stated. I like the part about it being the operator not the synth.
BBFG, With your experience I would imagine you have a very clear idea of what you are looking for in a synth, so a few minutes with Fathom Mono should tell you what you need to know. Trimming the features does not apply to you since you've already used the mono version with all the features. It comes down to whether or not it provides something valuable for your music. If I'm on the fence with a synth then I don't buy it. I only buy one if I'm blown away by it.
I recently did one of my own songs and decided not to use Fathom at all, only Omnisphere, Avenger, Diva, Sylenth and Spire. What happened is I ended up having to use Fathom on a some tracks because there were a couple things only it could do: Sample accurate modulations, complex envelopes, and original waveforms.
Trojak, very well stated. I like the part about it being the operator not the synth.
Last edited by FathomSynth on Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.