Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive (Out Now!)

[mladi]

https://app.box.com/s/z1vrk9p037ggh8nwlejz2iy6ir6ef0pt

It's a WAV file. Can ANYONE hear any aliasing here? Even SPAN doesn't show anything that's not at around -130 dB or so.

My cat is jumping around. I'm fine with it.

[chk071]

wow Massive is now more massive - 1.6gb + 59mb lib....downloading....was 800mb before...hmmm

In Native Access, it was ~800 MB, when i downloaded it. Maybe they changed it now, and included both installers.

[Kian Russell]

It's a WAV file. Can ANYONE hear any aliasing here? Even SPAN doesn't show anything that's not at around -130 dB or so.

I can hear it aliasing on headphones.
@ around 8 seconds its more obvious, it folds back.

[EvilDragon]

See now I know you're bullshitting because that foldback around 8 sec can only be seen not heard, since it's at -130 dB and only happens between 16-20 kHz

You're not convincing me that you can hear artifacts that are beyond the 24-bit noise floor level.

[glokraw]

But tell me, please - in which sort of production would you use a 10th octave square wave audio-rate modulating something else? Honestly.

"Symphonies for Bats - An Evening in the Cave"

Chapter II: Hang with us.

Don't bat bytes need a serum?

[aMUSEd]

You can really tell the Mikael Adle patches - they have the most sophisticated use of modulations and macros - he really knows his stuff

[Kian Russell]

See now I know you're bullshitting because that fold back can only be seen, since it's at -130 dB and only happens between 16-20 kHz

its aliasing surely you can hear it starting even @8 seconds, there are artifacts.

[BlitBit]

If I had to summarize certain posts in this thread it would be one word: "Entitlement".

I guess if Massive X had implemented all the features that people are demanding in this thread they would be complaining about high CPU loads now.

He isn't even demanding them. I doubt he has any kind of actual usecase in mind for audio rate LFO's that would benefit from anti-aliasing methods let alone any kind of usecase for audio rate LFO's going at C9 and above.

To me this doesn't sound like it comes from a practical perspective of using equipment to make music. Kind of like looking at something as an engineer without ever considering the practical appliances. An illustrative analogy would be something like this:

"Are you aware that this corner isn't perfect and it's way too round?" says the engineer
"But sir, this is a sledgehammer..." says the construction worker

As someone who dabbles a bit in DSP myself I can even fully understand the engineering view on things.

But in my opinion it's one thing to dissect something to see how it ticks and then to talk or write about it to perhaps discuss it with other similarily interested people. However, it another thing to mix this with statements like "This is unacceptable." without understanding the tradeoffs that have been made by the developers. And that's also where the entitlement aspect comes in. If you do not know or understand the tradeoffs then these statements come across as "Hey, you stupid developers! I caught you on something! Why didn't you implement this better?" when in fact the developers knew very well why the did implement it in a certain way.

[felis]

....
The release velocity thing is probably just a bug that will get fixed, but it’s been stated that Massive X won’t work on pre AVX processor machines, so that’s the source or your issue.

Well - the pc desktop that it crashed isn't really that old.
And it runs stuff like the rest of Komplete 11 and Steinberg's Absolute collection just fine.

Edit: holy crap - time flies. I just checked what AVX is, and you may be right.
The desktop is 10 years old.
One of the many reasons why hardware rules.
A good keyboard that age is still young.

[sadowickproduction]

OK I must say I am confused now, Sadowick. I just set the Sin-Tri-Saw-SQ wavetable direct to output, WT position at max (so it's a square wave), bypassed filter and all, then did a 96 semitone pitch bend on it (because MX is crazy like that it allows you such huge bend ranges, pretty cool) and recorded the output. Here's the result:

https://app.box.com/s/z1vrk9p037ggh8nwlejz2iy6ir6ef0pt


It's a WAV file. Can ANYONE hear any aliasing here? Even SPAN doesn't show anything that's not at around -130 dB or so.

Because with processing these artifacts are accentuated. EQ, compression, saturation, ect bring these out.

Demonstration just for you using your audio sweep:


These things matter

[EvilDragon]

See now I know you're bullshitting because that fold back can only be seen, since it's at -130 dB and only happens between 16-20 kHz

its aliasing surely you can hear it starting even @8 seconds, there are artifacts.

That's actually harmonics vanishing due to bandlimiting, the actual artifact is as I said, -130 dB down and above 16k. You just don't hear that.

[mladi]

See now I know you're bullshitting because that foldback around 8 sec can only be seen not heard, since it's at -130 dB and only happens between 16-20 kHz

You're not convincing me that you can hear artifacts that are beyond the 24-bit noise floor level.

That is only c9 tickles his tympanum.

[BlitBit]

See now I know you're bullshitting because that fold back can only be seen, since it's at -130 dB and only happens between 16-20 kHz

its aliasing surely you can hear it starting even @8 seconds, there are artifacts.

Yes, I also heard something around the eight seconds mark. However, this only happened when I played the file through the web player. If you download the wav file and listen to it for example with VLC you won't hear anything.

So always make sure what's between the source of a sound and your ears (or eyes if you use analyzers)!

[aMUSEd]

This aliasing pedantry is really getting boring - maybe some mod can split it off?

[glokraw]

If I had to summarize certain posts in this thread it would be one word: "Entitlement".

I guess if Massive X had implemented all the features that people are demanding in this thread they would be complaining about high CPU loads now.

Then it would have too much features and would be too complex.
Also:
- GUI (for as many reasons as many people exist)
- Lack of washing machine functionality
- Not enough 'X' type presets
- Too much of 'Y' type presets
- Wagtunes will not buy it because he have all the synths he need (+ 20 pages of explanation why, for people who still can't get over it)
- It's not Serum
- It's not Dune
- It's not [insert any vst name here, including effects because why not?]
- Still features 'X' and 'Y' are missing
- No character because aliasing is missing
- Too much of character
- MX contributes to global warming
- MX is responsible for flat earth and WWII
- Faders should replace knobs and knobs should replace faders
- Too complex for being a preset browser/rompler
- NOT ENOUGH LFO!
- 1 more oscillator would change it diametrically

Ok... no more ideas for now

Expect a job offer from NI in your email quite soon
Their quality assurance droid is running too hot to
make it through the weekend