Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive (Out Now!)

[EvilDragon]

This system has onboard Intel HD Graphics with the latest drivers. Like I said it runs everything else I've thrown at it.

I have Intel HD 530 on my 6700K. I only get some flickers here and there. It's a known issue with Intel GPUs, they're working on it.

Does having latest drivers make any difference with this problem? Mine is Intel HD 630. I had a few problems (not related to audio) with the latest drivers, so I am using drivers that are few months old (2018). If it does not make difference, I will not update my drivers yet and will wait for the Massive X patch first instead.

Doesn't seem to matter if you have the latest drivers.

[EvilDragon]

It's not false. Beta is feature complete but may have bugs. What we have been given is not feature complete therefore it's alpha.

Wrong. Features can always be added during the lifetime of the product. Zebra 2 had a bunch of updates in 10+ years it's been around, for example. In modern times, there's no such thing as "feature complete" really.

[LoveEnigma18]

This system has onboard Intel HD Graphics with the latest drivers. Like I said it runs everything else I've thrown at it.

I have Intel HD 530 on my 6700K. I only get some flickers here and there. It's a known issue with Intel GPUs, they're working on it.

Does having latest drivers make any difference with this problem? Mine is Intel HD 630. I had a few problems (not related to audio) with the latest drivers, so I am using drivers that are few months old (2018). If it does not make difference, I will not update my drivers yet and will wait for the Massive X patch first instead.

Doesn't seem to matter if you have the latest drivers.

Thanks, I will wait then.

[chk071]

Time to check on my laptop with shitty Intel graphics.

[Stefken]

It’s such an unfinished product it’s not even in a beta state. I take it as an offense they released it like this.

As someone who has worked on multiple private alpha and beta testing teams, and who used to be the head tech support person for a developer, I find your statement offensive. It's patently false.

It's not false. Beta is feature complete but may have bugs. What we have been given is not feature complete therefore it's alpha.

Well, they had no choice to release it now, after 2 delays already. Why do you think they pushed it to the 27th of the month?
But they are aware, they are being receptive and updates are already ahead, so there's a clear development path right there. That's the most important thing.

[EvilDragon]

I'm also not seeing any presets even after refreshing twice.

Factory library is a separate install from NA.

[matteogk]

What a clever developer decided to avoid numberic values all over the knobs.
The more I use Massive X the more I love its concept and its sound results!

[LoveEnigma18]

Time to check on my laptop with shitty Intel graphics.

Don't call them so unless you see the GUI glitches there. Who knows, they might prove to be better.

[chk071]

Good point. Karma always seems to be a thing with computers.

[Stefken]

I wish I can purchase only synths coded with AVX now!

Well, I expect to see it more and more, until it will be standard stuff (at what time the next evolution will already be knocking on the door ).
Several devs have already upgraded existing synths to AVX.

I need to check all my synths then! Maybe I missed something in beta or an update! Anyway, my CPU doesn't support the AVX-512 so it is not future proofed!

Future proof is a relative statement in IT.
I think it's a fair statement to say that primary focus will be on AVX, as a good balance between going forward while providing adequate backward compatibility. But it doesn't have to be either or. Cypher 2 was just updated and now supports both AVX-512 and AVX. People lucky enough to have AVX-512, have some extra free juice, but people with AVX can enjoy a big boost as well.

[graspee]

It's not false. Beta is feature complete but may have bugs. What we have been given is not feature complete therefore it's alpha.

Wrong. Features can always be added during the lifetime of the product. Zebra 2 had a bunch of updates in 10+ years it's been around, for example. In modern times, there's no such thing as "feature complete" really.

Performers can't be poly, only mono.

OK, you might say that's intended and the product is complete and if they add that later it's adding a new feature.

But original Massive had poly performers, Massive X has poly envelopes and LFOs. It makes no sense for them to intend performers to be only mono.

If you don't accept this, what about the magnifying glass search presets button that doesn't do anything? What about the static drawing of an envelope that doesn't react to your ADSR changes? That latter they actually admitted is planned to be changed so a static drawing is not the intention so - not feature complete.

I like the product, I may even buy it later today but it is not finished. We all know that. Your defense of EVERY SINGLE criticism of the product is really similar to the behaviour of a paid employee.

[EvilDragon]

Sure there is stuff that's not finished yet, that alone is obvious. That does NOT make it alpha software - alpha versions usually don't even have the GUI sorted out. You should've seen the early beta version Also, I can't honestly remember a lot of plugins (if any?) that were just released as v1.0 and being feature complete, without having a single non-bugfix update.

[chk071]

Time to check on my laptop with shitty Intel graphics.

Seems to work fine here, with a Intel HD 4400...

BTW, i noticed that there are some phasing issues when i add a insert FX oscillator. Are those phase retriggered by default? And... can i set them to free running as well?

[perpetual3]

Good follow up post here on the aliasing thing: https://www.native-instruments.com/foru ... st-1807029

Maybe we can finally take it to rest (although i doubt it... ).

Regarding the AVX: Ok, i also think that people weren't aware of that, i wasn't either, until it was mentioned here. But, the moment i read it, i checked if my CPU supports it, and it did, like almost every other CPU in the last 10 years. Apple notoriously hoax their users, so, i'm not surprised at all that even the most expensive Mac's from 9 years ago don't have a AVX capable CPU.

To be fair, that analysis claims that sadowick did not deactivate the filter, which he did. He clearly runs the osc directly to the main output, bypassing, in both of his tests. The conclusion of the analysis also states that the sine is not a pure sine wave. Ok.

If that’s the case, I can’t help but wonder why NI wouldn’t at least have given the option. Would it really have increased CPU usage to create a cleaner sine? Maybe so. Even if it did, why would NI care so much about that? Seems like an odd compromise for a synth marketed as the future of sound, and one which they don’t seem to have given as much concern to in the past.

Nothwistanding the subjective sound quality of the synth, which many if not most feel is very good, I feel that the real issue is not how the synth sounds using basic wave shapes in a simplified setup, but rather that the aliasing, even if inaudible in that simplified setup, can introduce unwanted problems when leveraging the modulation power and potential of the synth. My understanding is that Serum, PhasePlant, Avenger (which I don’t own) use such clean and allegedly sterile osc precisely in order to avoid unwanted issues arising from modulations (which they also are designed to leverage).

In any case, I stumbled across a comment on sadowick’s video which contains a link to a SOS article that claims that lower aliasing is actually bigger problem that higher aliasing.

Here is quote from the article and a link:

“The sampling process is a form of amplitude modulation in which the input signal frequencies are added to and subtracted from the sample-rate frequency. In radio terms, the sum products are called the upper sideband and the subtracted products are called the lower sideband. In digital circles they are just referred to as the 'images'.

These images play no part in the digital audio process — they are essentially just a side-effect of sampling — but they must be kept well above the wanted audio frequencies so that they can be removed easily without affecting the wanted audio signal. This is where all the trouble starts. The upper image isn't really a problem, but if the lower one is allowed too low, it will overlap the wanted audio band and create 'aliases' that cannot be removed.”

http://https://www.soundonsound.com/sou ... -causes-it

Finally, I don’t want my comments to be misconstrued as bad mouthing NI or MX. I haven’t bought it , but I use many of their synths and effects. Absynth was my first soft synth ever (which I actually purchased before the acquisition by NI, so yeah, I’m getting up there). Further, I actually like a little (or a lot) of aliasing sometimes. But I can understand why it could be an issue for many, especially for a $250, again, marketed as the future of sound, synth. Rather than operate from some kind of emotional enthusiasm, I just like to be as objective as possible.

[graspee]

Sure there is stuff that's not finished yet, that alone is obvious. That does NOT make it alpha software - alpha versions usually don't even have the GUI sorted out. You should've seen the early beta version Also, I can't honestly remember a lot of plugins (if any?) that were just released as v1.0 and being feature complete, without having a single non-bugfix update.

I don't want to argue about this forever because it's obvious you won't change your mind but just because there are alphas that are less finished does not make massive X not alpha and just because lots of synths have stuff added to them after release does not make massive X not alpha.