Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive (Out Now!)

[Captain]

Time to call Jessica Jones to look into this (as she works at Alias Investigations... just watching the 3rd season )

As for the synth itself, it took me a moment to realize that it indeed seems to be missing some very basic things. I first thought the preset popup menu is just a quick selector, and there’s also an actual browser somewhere with tags and everything (apparently not). And the lack of visual feedback, exact parameter values and tooltips (not to mention manual) also makes the whole thing a little mysterious... but also in a slightly exciting way.

Like many have been saying, without knowing exactly what went down, it looks obvious that NI had to make some hard decisions about what to include and what to omit from the 1.0 release. But what’s already there now seems rock solid, so they probably concentrated on the right things. Imagine the crapstorm had it been full of actual bugs... Now it’s already perfectly usable, if not always the most obvious or user-friendly. Things like preset browsers and manuals etc. can and probably will be added afterwards without breaking anything. It sounds great, the semi-modular routing system is wonderful, and to me it feels like a perfect balance between a (too) simple synth and a (too) complex modular system. I’m sure we’ll hear some great patches soon from top sound designers (you know who you are ) (and there’s already very good stuff in this very thread!)

[eromain]

Can i ask if there is an effective tagging system for patches?

[ENV1]

So why is this named 'Massive'?

Seems to have very little in common with the original, i mean not even the UI resembles it?

IMO this could be any new synth going by any name, just as well.

I think this is a design decision is due to the number of parameters - if I'm not mistaken 128 is max for VST.

No, that cant be right.

LinPlug RMIV for instance has a grand total of 15,200 parameters (thats fifteen-thousand-two-hundret), and while a lot of them are in fact labeled 'hidden/reserved' they all show up just fine in REAPER, and all that are actually assigned to a function can be automated just fine too, regardless of whether the parameter is located relatively near the start of the list (say 1-100 range, i.e. below 128) or somewhere much later like in the 10,000-11,000 range.

So if anything it might perhaps be host dependent, (maybe not all can handle such a large amount of parameters), but it cant be because its not generally possible due to limitations in the VST specs because else REAPER wouldnt be able to show/handle 15,000+ parameters either.

(And there are many more plugins with relatively high parameter counts, so its not that RMIV is a particularly special case. Maybe 15,000+ is indeed rather exceptional, but from what i have seen amounts in the hundrets and even thousands are not at all uncommon even with older plugins; Albino3 for instance has 6,400 and z3ta+ has 589.)

So no, unless i misunderstood something here there can be WAY more parameters than 128.

[Mushy Mushy]

So why is this named 'Massive'?

Because marketing.

Do you think a new synth name would have generated this much buzz? No chance.

[ENV1]

So why is this named 'Massive'?

Because marketing.

Do you think a new synth name would have generated this much buzz? No chance.

Plausible.

[Pytchblend]

And is there a law somewhere that a "flagship synthesizer" should have animated ADSR graphs?

Yes, of course, silly! And also the curve should be tracked with a blue dot showing the progress each trigger and release in real time.

[PAK]

Why is nobody talking about the fact that NI has released, in 2019, a synthesizer that doesn't allow your DAW to automate any parameters unless you assign macro knobs to them?

I think this is a design decision is due to the number of parameters - if I'm not mistaken 128 is max for VST.

You are very mistaken. The only time such limitations are justified, IMO, is with highly modular synths (where you simply cannot assign a "set" list of parameters). Then such systems offer a limited, if kludgey, work around which is better than nothing.

Yes, big sprawling parameter lists are difficult to map, though far from impossible (especially when plain english parameter names are used by the coder). Solutions which aim to solve this "difficulty", by reducing the amount of controls, partly misunderstand the problem. A minority of users WILL do the work and share - I've fully mapped synths with over 1,000 parameters myself testing this stuff. The real problem is hardware companies simply aren't prepared to build the LARGE hardware control surfaces with the advanced mapping logic REQUIRED for a good full software control experience.

When you move away from full automation, not only are you removing the way your DAW software can record live performance tweaks beyond what can be mapped to MIDI CC's or said kludge systems, you're effectively giving up on full control and relegating software to always be a second class citizen in terms of hands on control. The dedicated control experience will always be bad when companies refuse to build the surfaces this sort of software requires, and then take the option away for someone else to do it too, because there's things which now simply cannot map.

It maybe reeks a bit lof cynical moves to somehow flog Komplete Kontrol devices on the back of such decisions too. But hey, if they can sell more 8 knob controllers to the kiddies, what do they care, right? Let's just keep these poor software control experiences going for another few decades, because why would you need more than 8 knobs to program a synth like Massive X, right?

This release was clearly timed as it was because NI would've taken a financial hit had they missed the Summer of Sound sales window without having "something" (ie Massive X) for people to "upgrade" to. I would hope a more complete automation solution, which doesn't make an attempt to somehow tie users down to NI's hardware, is amongst the "lost features" awaiting addition. MIDI learn is a start, but it'd be a shame to see NI move things more towards the proprietary, and away from the possibility of full control even if nobody presently makes the products to map it well. (Automap got close, but the surfaces were way too small and lacked logic to avoid the pages problem, and ultimately got sunk by the difficulty in maintaining functional wrappers for all DAW software).

[SLiC]

Can i ask if there is an effective tagging system for patches?

None at all....it doesn't have many of the basic functions I expect from a modern synth. Give it another year or so and it will probably be finished. Right now to me it looks and feels like a Reaktor instrument even though it doesn't need Reaktor! Its sounds good (but no better than most of the usual suspects) and is quite well optimised but it is extremely very basic in terms of visuals, midi and general niceties....

[frackermak]

Several MX patches in my new demo
Loving this synth
https://soundcloud.com/screamershock/th ... ing-louder

[EnGee]

Today I decided to use Massive X. Although I like the presets in general, but usually I tweak and edit them.
Are the 'drawing' of the envelopes static?! I mean when I change the Attack for example I don't see a change in the drawing! Is that a bug? In the old Massive I can see even the Morphing in the envelopes!! Please tell me I'm missing something!

[chk071]

So why is this named 'Massive'?

Seems to have very little in common with the original, i mean not even the UI resembles it?

I think that it quite resembles Massive 1. At least when you're not running around with a blindfold. They both are wavetable synths, they both share the same way of assigning modulations, they both have macros, they both have performers... the unison sections is similar. Of course you can't expect everything to look and feel exactly the same. And, of course marketing will also come into play in regards of the name. I don't think it's a entirely different synth, though. I guess it's different enough that they chose to call it Massive X, rather than Massive 2, though.

[12deadpixels]

Today I decided to use Massive X. Although I like the presets in general, but usually I tweak and edit them.
Are the 'drawing' of the envelopes static?! I mean when I change the Attack for example I don't see a change in the drawing! Is that a bug? In the old Massive I can see even the Morphing in the envelopes!! Please tell me I'm missing something!

Yes, these are simply static images of a generic ADHSR envelope. NI might address this in the future, but I am not sure if this has been confirmed or not officially by NI. Don't trust any youtuber saying that NI will certainly address this missing feature, unlsess NI specifically said anything on it on their webpages, if you are considering purchasing the product.

If you bought it, please upvote this post on NI Massive X support forum:
https://support.native-instruments.com/ ... nge-en-us-

also this one:
https://support.native-instruments.com/ ... e-X-en-us-

[EnGee]

Yes, these are simply static images of a generic ADHSR envelope. NI might address this in the future, but I am not sure if this has been confirmed or not officially by NI. Don't trust any youtuber saying that NI will certainly address this missing feature, if you are considering purchasing the product.

If you bought it, please upvote this post on NI Massive X support forum:
https://support.native-instruments.com/ ... nge-en-us-

Shocking! I didn't expected that!! I thought when they were talking about the visual feedback, they meant animation (like say Circle2 or other synths) so I didn't mind missing, but this static mode is ridiculous! Why then included the drawing?!

Anyway, I upvoted your request. No, I didn't buy it exactly. It came with Komplete 12 which I upgraded to because of Kontakt in the first place (especially the libraries included like Middle East, India ..etc). So, it is just a bonus for me!

Ok then. I really now prefer using the old Massive and also Sugar Bytes Factory is on the same league in sounds with a great GUI and modulations. I think Massive X needs at least one year (that if they have the intention to develop it more!). Luckily they didn't replace the old Massive!

[chk071]

I'm having a lot of fun up- and downvoting some "issues" and posts on the feedback page at the moment.

[12deadpixels]

Yes, these are simply static images of a generic ADHSR envelope. NI might address this in the future, but I am not sure if this has been confirmed or not officially by NI. Don't trust any youtuber saying that NI will certainly address this missing feature, if you are considering purchasing the product.

If you bought it, please upvote this post on NI Massive X support forum:
https://support.native-instruments.com/ ... nge-en-us-

Shocking! I didn't expected that!! I thought when they were talking about the visual feedback, they meant animation (like say Circle2 or other synths) so I didn't mind missing, but this static mode is ridiculous! Why then included the drawing?!

Anyway, I upvoted your request. No, I didn't buy it exactly. It came with Komplete 12 which I upgraded to because of Kontakt in the first place (especially the libraries included like Middle East, India ..etc). So, it is just a bonus for me!

Ok then. I really now prefer using the old Massive and also Sugar Bytes Factory is on the same league in sounds with a great GUI and modulations. I think Massive X needs at least one year (that if they have the intention to develop it more!). Luckily they didn't replace the old Massive!

Yes, it is. I really hope NI will implement this feature in one of their future updates.

Anyway, if you bought Komplete 12, you also bought Massive X, no matter if you paid for it relatively low cosidering its individual price on the store. That's just how marketing works