Wavetable Blowout: Massive X vs Avenger vs Serum vs Icarus vs Pigments...

[jeffb01]

You guys might be right. Dune is a cool synth and honestly is at the top of my list for future synths. But I don't think you can add sync or FM to the wavetable in real time. right? That was the qualification I made in the original post and is a very important part of any wavetable synth I am interested in (as a wavetable synths). Maybe I will change that in the future, but there are so many va synths that add wavetable oscs. I would think I should add Rapid before Dune and Hive. But if I get enough requests...

[Mik_lo]

Definitely add rapid!

[cytospur]

Because of DUNE2/3's ability to do audio rate modulation you can do oscillator FX. I mention some of these on my web page in my signature.

[jeffb01]

Because of DUNE2/3's ability to do audio rate modulation you can do oscillator FX. I mention some of these on my web page in my signature.

That's a very cool website. I wish I had a pc for that awesome wt maker you made. it look too awesome.

If someone wants to give me some of the info, I will add Dune 3. I only have the demo, so someone will have to let me know the score. I will do a little research to make sure info jives and whatever you can't find.

[Saukar30]

Synthmaster checks all of the required boxes as well

[KBSoundSmith]

You guys might be right. Dune is a cool synth and honestly is at the top of my list for future synths. But I don't think you can add sync or FM to the wavetable in real time. right? That was the qualification I made in the original post and is a very important part of any wavetable synth I am interested in (as a wavetable synths). Maybe I will change that in the future, but there are so many va synths that add wavetable oscs. I would think I should add Rapid before Dune and Hive. But if I get enough requests...

Those type of wave behaviors can be baked into the wavetable itself. The distinction between real-time calculation of FM and FM waveforms stored in a table is arbitrary. Frankly, one of the major advantages of wavetables is that it gives you a large variety of waveforms without needing to calculate such waveforms in real-time... one might say that's the point of wavetable synths in the first place.

Hive does not do what you claim for your criteria. HOWEVER, the included FM wavetables (for just an isolated example), built with Hive's scripting language, end up with a more pristine/artifact-free result than can be achieved by many actual FM synths (read that again -- the FM quality in Hive is better than dedicated FM synths). Hive also benefits from very high quality real-time interpolation of the wavetable that other wavetable synths either don't attempt at all or can't match.

It seems ...hmm, silly... to exclude high-quality engines based upon such arbitrary distinctions. I haven't tried Dune 3, but given its pedigree, and that it is in fact a wavetable synth, it also seems an extremely odd omission in a list of wavetable synths.

[jeffb01]

You guys might be right. Dune is a cool synth and honestly is at the top of my list for future synths. But I don't think you can add sync or FM to the wavetable in real time. right? That was the qualification I made in the original post and is a very important part of any wavetable synth I am interested in (as a wavetable synths). Maybe I will change that in the future, but there are so many va synths that add wavetable oscs. I would think I should add Rapid before Dune and Hive. But if I get enough requests...

Those type of wave behaviors can be baked into the wavetable itself. The distinction between real-time calculation of FM and FM waveforms stored in a table is arbitrary. Frankly, one of the major advantages of wavetables is that it gives you a large variety of waveforms without needing to calculate such waveforms in real-time... one might say that's the point of wavetable synths in the first place.

Hive does not do what you claim for your criteria. HOWEVER, the included FM wavetables (for just an isolated example), built with Hive's scripting language, end up with a more pristine/artifact-free result than can be achieved by many actual FM synths (read that again -- the FM quality in Hive is better than dedicated FM synths). Hive also benefits from very high quality real-time interpolation of the wavetable that other wavetable synths either don't attempt at all or can't match.

It seems ...hmm, silly... to exclude high-quality engines based upon such arbitrary distinctions. I haven't tried Dune 3, but given its pedigree, and that it is in fact a wavetable synth, it also seems an extremely odd omission in a list of wavetable synths.

I don't think it's silly, tbh. my points:

I'm not trying to compare every synth, it's a blowout of the wavetable synths. If version 1.0 of the synth didn't do wavetables, then (to me) it's not so much a wavetable synth, but a VA synth that added wavetables as an osc option. It's about the synth's mission statement, if that makes sense. That said, Dune 3 and Hive 2 are very fine synths that I would like to own one day.

I would like to do a blowout of the FM synths, but it's not like every synth that has a FM knob is going in there. I thought I set a low bar with being able to mod a wt and I'm surprised at the resistance. Think of the synths I compared and imagine if they didn't have their numerous ways to modify the wt. They would be very different (lesser) synths. Even the Virus has ways to mod it's wavetables, but I'm not including that either. I would think Rapid and original Massive would be ahead of it in line.

I did 5 synths, which took a lot of time and research (and I know I got some stuff wrong). I don't own Dune or Hive2 anyway, but if you want to write up the info for those synths for the criteria above, I will add it - since it seems to be highly requested.

[zerocrossing]

I assume Aftertouch is monophonic unless it says polyphonic aftertouch.

Don’t. A lot of synths respond to polyphonic aftertouch and they just label it as aftertouch and it’ll just react to both/either. (This is the way they all should behave, IMO)

[jeffb01]

I assume Aftertouch is monophonic unless it says polyphonic aftertouch.

Don’t. A lot of synths respond to polyphonic aftertouch and they just label it as aftertouch and it’ll just react to both/either. (This is the way they all should behave, IMO)

Thank you. I will update now.

[zerocrossing]

I like Serum GUI as its nice and simple. But now seems dated compared to MX and some of the other GUI's of NIs stuff.

Ehhh.. why?
A perfect GUI will never be dated IMO.

As a UI designer, this kind of statement about a UI being “dated” is the bane of my existence. I was literally working on a Sci-fi third person shooter where the publisher wanted to “modernize the UI” for a UI that was initially designed to look like it was from the 23rd century. What the project actually needed was a once over to make sure all parts of the UI conformed to the same standards and conventions (which it doesn’t... still). Pick an attractive and clear look. Utilize best practices and logical choices as to how things are laid out and interacted with. You will never have to redesign your UI. (Unless your input device changes, of course.)

I used to never have troubles getting a UI to be very intuitive to a user... then Windows 8 came along and everyone decided that the right thing to do was to remove all information that communicated what an object did because that was “cleaner.” It’s like tossing all your furniture out the window to make your house look clean and then complaining about how hard your floor is.

[jeffb01]

Agreed. Can I ask what game it was. Just curious.

btw, you had posted before (in another topic) about Pigments eating your cpu and the test i did for this really confirms what you were saying.

[anomandaris1]

I don't think it's silly, tbh. my points:

I'm not trying to compare every synth, it's a blowout of the wavetable synths. If version 1.0 of the synth didn't do wavetables, then (to me) it's not so much a wavetable synth, but a VA synth that added wavetables as an osc option. It's about the synth's mission statement, if that makes sense.

Your wavetable definition has nothing to do with reality. Warp/bend/modulation/distortion wavetable modes are something that I think NI Massive introduced.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wavetable_synthesis

I'm pretty sure most digital "analogue" synth are also using wavetables.
CPU monsters like Diva/Repro and similar could be generating the waveform with formulas, anyone who knows more can inform us.

[kvotchin]

Great work there. Thanks for doing this!

[yellowmix]

Kinda odd not to consider wavetable interpolation (if any) as its own major category.

[PieBerger]

Avenger: Overall a great interface with nice visual feedback to everything except filter shapes.

To me it looks like what a club smells like at 5 am in the morning.