Wavetable Blowout: Massive X vs Avenger vs Serum vs Icarus vs Pigments...
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- KVRist
- 33 posts since 15 Apr, 2013 from Sweden
Adding some details on Phase Plant by Kilohearts:
Version # used & List Price:
Phase Plant 1.7.3: $169 - $349
GUI (very subjective):
Phase Plant: Dark gray and neon blue theme. Big waveforms that update on modulation. One-screen interface without tabs. Some pop-out editors.
Number of Factory Wavetables:
Phase Plant: ≈ 200
3rd Party & DIY Wavetables:
Phase Plant: Loads common wavetable formats. Include your own wt-folder. Loads WAVs. Full import/convert editor. Has full WT editor to modify or create new.
Wavetable Organization:
Phase Plant: Uses the folder structure on your computer, so however you like.
Number of Wavetable Oscs:
Phase Plant: Up to 32. (Doesn't have to be WT-generators. Can be Analog/Sampler/Noise)
Wavetable Modulations:
Phase Plant: Custom linear or Spectral Morphs. No pre-defined Bend-modes, but you can set them up through the extensive FM/PMing capabilities. The WT editor offers many morhpable effects such as Automatic EQing, Comb Filtering, Dispersing, Phase Offset, "Power Sync", Rectify, Self-FM e.t.c. And many other tools.
Number of additional audible Oscs:
Phase Plant: Does not apply.
Noise oscs:
Phase Plant: Up to 32 (as said before) parametric Noice generators. Also comes with a bunch of noise WTs.
Non-WT osc engines:
Phase Plant: Classic subtractive analog osc, Sampler that can be bullied into some grain stuff.
Unison:
Phase Plant: Each generator can have up to 8 voices. There is up to 8 global unison, and there are several FX modules that create even more voices. Current record is close to 2000 simultaneous voices I think
Able to add distortion before or between filters:
Phase Plant: Yes. Put them anywhere you like in your routing. Either in the generator stack, or in the FX lanes.
ARP/ Sequencer:
Phase Plant: No midi effects, if that's what you are asking? You can create simple arpeggios and sequences with the freeform LFOs if you like.
Total LFO/Mseg/Envelope Modulators:
Phase Plant: Any number of each.
LFOs:
Phase Plant: Any number. Custom editor for shapes.
Envelopes:
Phase Plant: Any Number. Each group that is to make a sound needs an output module and it has an ENV built in. On top of that you can add any number of extras in the modulator lane.
MSEG
Phase Plant: The custom LFOs double as MSEGs.
Macros:
Phase Plant: 8 Macro knobs. Because of the modular nature many parameters are not available for automation, but have to be routed through a macro first.
CPU Usage:
Phase Plant: I can't recreate your test in a reliable manner, so you might want to download the trial and do it yourself.
Midi Support:
Phase Plant: Note, Pressure/Aftertouch, Velocity. Midi-bind on macros.
Screen resolution at 100%:
Phase Plant: 1247px wide initially. Height freely resizable.
Resizeable:
Phase Plant: Yes, in 5% increments up to 500%, or as big as your screen. High-DPI compatible.
Hardware accelerated:
Phase Plant: No
Visualisation (is there a modulation depth preview)?
Phase Plant: Yes.
How many GUI themes are included by the vendor? Dark/Bright/Color?
Phase Plant: 0
Drag and Drop modulation?
Phase Plant: Yes
Version # used & List Price:
Phase Plant 1.7.3: $169 - $349
GUI (very subjective):
Phase Plant: Dark gray and neon blue theme. Big waveforms that update on modulation. One-screen interface without tabs. Some pop-out editors.
Number of Factory Wavetables:
Phase Plant: ≈ 200
3rd Party & DIY Wavetables:
Phase Plant: Loads common wavetable formats. Include your own wt-folder. Loads WAVs. Full import/convert editor. Has full WT editor to modify or create new.
Wavetable Organization:
Phase Plant: Uses the folder structure on your computer, so however you like.
Number of Wavetable Oscs:
Phase Plant: Up to 32. (Doesn't have to be WT-generators. Can be Analog/Sampler/Noise)
Wavetable Modulations:
Phase Plant: Custom linear or Spectral Morphs. No pre-defined Bend-modes, but you can set them up through the extensive FM/PMing capabilities. The WT editor offers many morhpable effects such as Automatic EQing, Comb Filtering, Dispersing, Phase Offset, "Power Sync", Rectify, Self-FM e.t.c. And many other tools.
Number of additional audible Oscs:
Phase Plant: Does not apply.
Noise oscs:
Phase Plant: Up to 32 (as said before) parametric Noice generators. Also comes with a bunch of noise WTs.
Non-WT osc engines:
Phase Plant: Classic subtractive analog osc, Sampler that can be bullied into some grain stuff.
Unison:
Phase Plant: Each generator can have up to 8 voices. There is up to 8 global unison, and there are several FX modules that create even more voices. Current record is close to 2000 simultaneous voices I think
Able to add distortion before or between filters:
Phase Plant: Yes. Put them anywhere you like in your routing. Either in the generator stack, or in the FX lanes.
ARP/ Sequencer:
Phase Plant: No midi effects, if that's what you are asking? You can create simple arpeggios and sequences with the freeform LFOs if you like.
Total LFO/Mseg/Envelope Modulators:
Phase Plant: Any number of each.
LFOs:
Phase Plant: Any number. Custom editor for shapes.
Envelopes:
Phase Plant: Any Number. Each group that is to make a sound needs an output module and it has an ENV built in. On top of that you can add any number of extras in the modulator lane.
MSEG
Phase Plant: The custom LFOs double as MSEGs.
Macros:
Phase Plant: 8 Macro knobs. Because of the modular nature many parameters are not available for automation, but have to be routed through a macro first.
CPU Usage:
Phase Plant: I can't recreate your test in a reliable manner, so you might want to download the trial and do it yourself.
Midi Support:
Phase Plant: Note, Pressure/Aftertouch, Velocity. Midi-bind on macros.
Screen resolution at 100%:
Phase Plant: 1247px wide initially. Height freely resizable.
Resizeable:
Phase Plant: Yes, in 5% increments up to 500%, or as big as your screen. High-DPI compatible.
Hardware accelerated:
Phase Plant: No
Visualisation (is there a modulation depth preview)?
Phase Plant: Yes.
How many GUI themes are included by the vendor? Dark/Bright/Color?
Phase Plant: 0
Drag and Drop modulation?
Phase Plant: Yes
- KVRAF
- 5813 posts since 17 Aug, 2004 from Berlin, Germany
Great overview! Dune3 and Hive2 should be added (as others have already mentioned).
I have been using Serum since 2014 and Steve Duda has really set the bar very high. Everything that followed had to compete with Serum
I'm not talking about Massive X which in my opinion is an unfinished and mediocre implemented "me too" synth. But some synths like Rapid are worth a closer look.
Btw. I think it's very important which functions the wavetable editor has (if any). There are some tricks like removing harmonic overtones that are used for bass sounds. So a FFT Area for drawing harmonics is very useful.
I have been using Serum since 2014 and Steve Duda has really set the bar very high. Everything that followed had to compete with Serum
I'm not talking about Massive X which in my opinion is an unfinished and mediocre implemented "me too" synth. But some synths like Rapid are worth a closer look.
Btw. I think it's very important which functions the wavetable editor has (if any). There are some tricks like removing harmonic overtones that are used for bass sounds. So a FFT Area for drawing harmonics is very useful.
| Links
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 955 posts since 18 Apr, 2006
thank you. I will try to add this to the op after I test (give me a few days). My demo expired so I may pm you with some questions.Per Salbark wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:32 am Adding some details on Phase Plant by Kilohearts:
Version # used & List Price:
Phase Plant 1.7.3: $169 - $349
Last edited by jeffb01 on Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 955 posts since 18 Apr, 2006
- KVRAF
- 3054 posts since 25 Apr, 2011
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- KVRian
- 1461 posts since 26 Jun, 2002 from London, UK
You try telling that to the Brits.
Wavetables for DUNE2/3, Blofeld, IL Harmor, Hive and Serum etc: http://charlesdickens.neocities.org/
£10 for lifetime updates including wavetable editor for Windows.
Music: https://soundcloud.com/markholt
£10 for lifetime updates including wavetable editor for Windows.
Music: https://soundcloud.com/markholt
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- KVRAF
- 2024 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London
- KVRAF
- 5891 posts since 12 Jan, 2018
@jeffb01: Excellent job.
I have Massive X and Pigments and I do not see any need or want to get any other wavetable synth ever. The options offered by these two are overwhelming (good way!) and beyond I could comprehend in many years to come.
I have Massive X and Pigments and I do not see any need or want to get any other wavetable synth ever. The options offered by these two are overwhelming (good way!) and beyond I could comprehend in many years to come.
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- Banned
- 3889 posts since 3 Feb, 2010
Indeed very good overview!
Also good to add Dune 3 and Hive 2. Aswel maybe Zebra 2/ZebraHZ as they also have wavetables. Dont forget Synthmaster One and Two!
Also good to add Dune 3 and Hive 2. Aswel maybe Zebra 2/ZebraHZ as they also have wavetables. Dont forget Synthmaster One and Two!
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- KVRist
- 171 posts since 8 Jun, 2019
I think Fathom, Dune, Hive, Synthmaster and Predator should be the next ones added. Hopefully the Fathom dev will take a look at this thread, because I think a lot of he interpolation discussion would be interesting to him.
- KVRAF
- 2468 posts since 18 Apr, 2011
really nice comparison with a lot of data... however
some changes for AVENGER:
Total LFO/Mseg/Envelope Modulators:
33 (1 amp envelope, 4 filter envelopes, 4 LFOs, 8 MSEG, 8 sequencers, 8 arps)
- it are 4 amp envelopes
same for "Envelopes:" section
- it are 4 amp envelopes (+all 8 ModEnvelopes can be selected as source for AMP or Filter)
3rd Party & DIY Wavetables: Tedious as you have to import one at a time into proprietary format. Basic editing is available
- well the "resampler" module is for creating wavetables. Its just few clicks, if the imported sample is suitable for being converted to a wavetable. Can be any monophonic frequency sweep or vocal. You can select an area which should be exported as a WT and you need to know the original pitch of the sample. Done.
Wavetable Modulations:
- you totally forgot the FFT, which is unique. You can control any partial of the WT, nearly an additive synth. You can sweep and filter and move these partials
Filters:
you also forgot the LP/HP filter from the FFT there. It can have an variable slope (up to infinite) which is interesting, and can be modulated by any envelope
Midi Support:
- there a many more in the mod matrix as the ones you listed
Wavetable Organization:
-you should mention that we have a text search fiels. When you selected the WT category and then enter "bass" as text string, it shows all WTs with Bass in the name.
Number of Factory Wavetables: Avenger 600
- these are the complex wavetables, There are thousands of "static" shapes, which can be bend, formant sweeped and modulated like the wavetables. Just want to mention it
some changes for AVENGER:
Total LFO/Mseg/Envelope Modulators:
33 (1 amp envelope, 4 filter envelopes, 4 LFOs, 8 MSEG, 8 sequencers, 8 arps)
- it are 4 amp envelopes
same for "Envelopes:" section
- it are 4 amp envelopes (+all 8 ModEnvelopes can be selected as source for AMP or Filter)
3rd Party & DIY Wavetables: Tedious as you have to import one at a time into proprietary format. Basic editing is available
- well the "resampler" module is for creating wavetables. Its just few clicks, if the imported sample is suitable for being converted to a wavetable. Can be any monophonic frequency sweep or vocal. You can select an area which should be exported as a WT and you need to know the original pitch of the sample. Done.
Wavetable Modulations:
- you totally forgot the FFT, which is unique. You can control any partial of the WT, nearly an additive synth. You can sweep and filter and move these partials
Filters:
you also forgot the LP/HP filter from the FFT there. It can have an variable slope (up to infinite) which is interesting, and can be modulated by any envelope
Midi Support:
- there a many more in the mod matrix as the ones you listed
Wavetable Organization:
-you should mention that we have a text search fiels. When you selected the WT category and then enter "bass" as text string, it shows all WTs with Bass in the name.
Number of Factory Wavetables: Avenger 600
- these are the complex wavetables, There are thousands of "static" shapes, which can be bend, formant sweeped and modulated like the wavetables. Just want to mention it
http://www.vengeance-sound.com
join our VPS AVENGER usergroup on FB: https://tinyurl.com/y99jurk9
join our reFX NEXUS usergroup on FB:https://tinyurl.com/tc5o9x7
https://www.youtube.com/vengeancesound
join our VPS AVENGER usergroup on FB: https://tinyurl.com/y99jurk9
join our reFX NEXUS usergroup on FB:https://tinyurl.com/tc5o9x7
https://www.youtube.com/vengeancesound
- KVRAF
- 8828 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space
The number of wavetables is a pure marketing (fake)argument. Imagine it had 1 million wave tables. How would you be able as a poor human being to deal with it? Its better to just have an option to build your own...
It reminds me on the number of blades in razors. I think you can get them with 8. But a single one is mostly better and anything above two is definitely getting worse...
It reminds me on the number of blades in razors. I think you can get them with 8. But a single one is mostly better and anything above two is definitely getting worse...
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- KVRian
- 1461 posts since 26 Jun, 2002 from London, UK
My disposable razor has 4+1 blades, and has a vibrating head, which makes it a much nicer, and better, shave. This goes to prove that wavetable synths with audio rate modulation are betterTj Shredder wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:03 am The number of wavetables is a pure marketing (fake)argument. Imagine it had 1 million wave tables. How would you be able as a poor human being to deal with it? Its better to just have an option to build your own...
It reminds me on the number of blades in razors. I think you can get them with 8. But a single one is mostly better and anything above two is definitely getting worse...
Wavetables for DUNE2/3, Blofeld, IL Harmor, Hive and Serum etc: http://charlesdickens.neocities.org/
£10 for lifetime updates including wavetable editor for Windows.
Music: https://soundcloud.com/markholt
£10 for lifetime updates including wavetable editor for Windows.
Music: https://soundcloud.com/markholt