Vember Audio Surge is now open-source

[baconpaul]

Thanks!

Yeah I'll still be reading GitHub while I'm traveling. And there's folks in our slack who could help them get started also with basic dev and git stuff.

[crimsonwarlock]

As has the fact that many hosts which folks say misdraw (like reaper on win10) ...

Hmmmm......I'm running Reaper on Windows 10, Surge resizes without any problems here.

[maxym.srpl]

I can confirm it too

[baconpaul]

Great! I also confirmed it in my VM with 1.6.1.1. But some users here told me it didn't. I will tick that off my list! Didn't need a windows dev to fix that one Thanks folks!

[Oberlai]

There's now a FB group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/surgesynth/

A few people from the project have joined as well -- hopefully the group will help the synth grow. Please join and share presets, tips & tricks, flaunt your Surge songs etc

[baconpaul]

For folks who have reported zoom issues, I have collected them all in a master issue linking to per-host per-version sub issues

https://github.com/surge-synthesizer/surge/issues/938

If you reported a zoom issue on this forum can you please browse that list and make sure yours is there. If it isn’t please just add a comment on that issue and we can track it.

Pushing towards a 1.6.2 release of surge for the early fall. Already have some bug fixes in place and also a few new features (including non chromatic tuning via .scl files which is coming along in an alpha stage in the nightlies)

Thanks.

[zzz00m]

For folks who have reported zoom issues, I have collected them all in a master issue linking to per-host per-version sub issues

https://github.com/surge-synthesizer/surge/issues/938

If you reported a zoom issue on this forum can you please browse that list and make sure yours is there. If it isn’t please just add a comment on that issue and we can track it.

Pushing towards a 1.6.2 release of surge for the early fall. Already have some bug fixes in place and also a few new features (including non chromatic tuning via .scl files which is coming along in an alpha stage in the nightlies)

Thanks.

Thanks!

Fyi, Surge 1.6.1.1 VST2 still has zoom enabled in Cakewalk, and that fails to zoom properly also.

[planetearth]

For folks who have reported zoom issues, I have collected them all in a master issue linking to per-host per-version sub issues

https://github.com/surge-synthesizer/surge/issues/938

If you reported a zoom issue on this forum can you please browse that list and make sure yours is there. If it isn’t please just add a comment on that issue and we can track it.

Pushing towards a 1.6.2 release of surge for the early fall. Already have some bug fixes in place and also a few new features (including non chromatic tuning via .scl files which is coming along in an alpha stage in the nightlies)

Thanks.

Thanks!

Fyi, Surge 1.6.1.1 VST2 still has zoom enabled in Cakewalk, and that fails to zoom properly also.

Right. Apparently, the Github post refers to Cakewalk by Bandlab only, and does not also include Cakewalk Sonar. The entry states: "Cakewalk by BandLab, VST3, as reported in #816".

An entry also referring to @zzz00m's post about the VST2 version is also in the Github post, but it simply refers to "Cakewalk", so I doubt it's referring to the more widely used Cakewalk Sonar, instead of the newer Cakewalk by Bandlab. The two share much of the same code base (for now), but there's no guarantee a fix in one will work in the other.

Steve

[zzz00m]

An entry also referring to @zzz00m's post about the VST2 version is also in the Github post, but it simply refers to "Cakewalk", so I doubt it's referring to the more widely used Cakewalk Sonar, instead of the newer Cakewalk by Bandlab. The two share much of the same code base (for now), but there's no guarantee a fix in one will work in the other.

Steve

I have the final release of Cakewalk Sonar Platinum (2017.10), as well as the most recent version of the DAW, which is Cakewalk by BandLab (2019.05), which has had some updates and bug fixes to the core DAW code since 2017. BandLab hired the former chief developer and CTO of Cakewalk, as well as some of the former dev team to continue development support of the program. So it has been incrementally improved, and is not an entirely new program.

But in regards to this zoom issue in Surge, in my testing I see the same Surge behavior in both versions of Cakewalk, with the exception that the VST3 version of the Surge plugin does not have the zoom feature disabled in Cakewalk Sonar.

In summary, the zoom is only disabled in the VST3 for Cakewalk by Bandlab.

[Iu Gob]

Pushing towards a 1.6.2 release of surge for the early fall. Already have some bug fixes in place and also a few new features (including non chromatic tuning via .scl files which is coming along in an alpha stage in the nightlies)

Thanks.

Thanks!

[baconpaul]

Yeah I only disabled zoom in the cakewalk VST3 even though it doesn’t work in the vst2 either. I updated the issue too!

[planetearth]

An entry also referring to @zzz00m's post about the VST2 version is also in the Github post, but it simply refers to "Cakewalk", so I doubt it's referring to the more widely used Cakewalk Sonar, instead of the newer Cakewalk by Bandlab. The two share much of the same code base (for now), but there's no guarantee a fix in one will work in the other.

Steve

I have the final release of Cakewalk Sonar Platinum (2017.10), as well as the most recent version of the DAW, which is Cakewalk by BandLab (2019.05), which has had some updates and bug fixes to the core DAW code since 2017. BandLab hired the former chief developer and CTO of Cakewalk, as well as some of the former dev team to continue development support of the program. So it has been incrementally improved, and is not an entirely new program.

But in regards to this zoom issue in Surge, in my testing I see the same Surge behavior in both versions of Cakewalk, with the exception that the VST3 version of the Surge plugin does not have the zoom feature disabled in Cakewalk Sonar.

In summary, the zoom is only disabled in the VST3 for Cakewalk by Bandlab.

I believe we're saying the same things here. I was just pointing out (mostly for @baconpaul's benefit) that the Github posts didn't specify which version of Cakewalk/Sonar they were referring to, and I know it can be confusing for people who weren't familiar with the DAW before BandLab took over, and may not know there are differences.

And from what @baconpaul has said, it appears the issue has more to do with the coding than the particular DAW, so until the new devs can find someone familiar with the coding, this issue may have to wait--and I can understand that.

Steve

[zzz00m]

An entry also referring to @zzz00m's post about the VST2 version is also in the Github post, but it simply refers to "Cakewalk", so I doubt it's referring to the more widely used Cakewalk Sonar, instead of the newer Cakewalk by Bandlab. The two share much of the same code base (for now), but there's no guarantee a fix in one will work in the other.

Steve

I have the final release of Cakewalk Sonar Platinum (2017.10), as well as the most recent version of the DAW, which is Cakewalk by BandLab (2019.05), which has had some updates and bug fixes to the core DAW code since 2017. BandLab hired the former chief developer and CTO of Cakewalk, as well as some of the former dev team to continue development support of the program. So it has been incrementally improved, and is not an entirely new program.

But in regards to this zoom issue in Surge, in my testing I see the same Surge behavior in both versions of Cakewalk, with the exception that the VST3 version of the Surge plugin does not have the zoom feature disabled in Cakewalk Sonar.

In summary, the zoom is only disabled in the VST3 for Cakewalk by Bandlab.

I believe we're saying the same things here. I was just pointing out (mostly for @baconpaul's benefit) that the Github posts didn't specify which version of Cakewalk/Sonar they were referring to, and I know it can be confusing for people who weren't familiar with the DAW before BandLab took over, and may not know there are differences.

And from what @baconpaul has said, it appears the issue has more to do with the coding than the particular DAW, so until the new devs can find someone familiar with the coding, this issue may have to wait--and I can understand that.

Steve

I wasn't really trying to go that deep regarding the Github post, just pointing out that the zoom feature had not been disabled in the VST2 version yet.

Was just trying to provide feedback on the temporary fix (i.e., disable zoom). I realize that there are some coding fixes required to enable zoom to work correctly with this DAW.

You are the one that brought up the potential differences in Cakewalk vs. Sonar, so I was just trying to add some detail to that statement, not trying to add any confusion.

[baconpaul]

And from what @baconpaul has said, it appears the issue has more to do with the coding than the particular DAW, so until the new devs can find someone familiar with the coding, this issue may have to wait--and I can understand that.

So it’s a mix actually. Zoom works fine in AU/Logic, Abelton, FL/VST3, Reaper windows, Carla/VST2 etc... we have a pretty long list.

But there’s a few hosts (Cakewalk, Tracktion, Renoise, Reaper/Linux, EnergyXT even more drastically) where the way I implemented zoom in Surge doesn’t work. There’s three /reasons for that I see

1. For VST3 - VST3 has an API to resize windows. Cakewalk seems to be calling it in a way I don’t expect. Cakewalk may be wrong. I may be wrong. But clearly something is wrong.
2. For VST2 - there isn’t really a VST2 resize API per se. There are things you can call where hosts de-facto resize but it is way less consistent. The way hosts have implemented VST2 and the way I am calling resize doesn’t seem to work.
3. VSTGUI is in the mix. I had to fix quite a lot of bugs in VSTGUI to make surge work (in fact, surge has to build against a forked / patched version of VSTGUI since there were problems with their zoom/transform code) and it’s hard to tell where a host goes wrong, where my API call goes wrong, or where VSTGUI goes wrong.

If I used windows for music and primary dev, as opposed to just having a windows VM for testing surge and rack development stuff, I would probably have had many of these fixed by now (I use LogicPro/Mac for all my music making; and my debugging skills on unixen are way higher than on windows). I have a couple of ideas on what to do - especially with cakewalk - which is why I aspirationally tagged the zoom issues all 1.6.2 (which is the tag I’m using for our Sep30 drop) and will try and work on these this summer sometime. But honestly, it is a bit less fun than adding non-standard tuning, and this is just a hobby!

But the other reason I tossed this comment in is: I appreciate the context you both added. “Good bug reports make good software” so having clear github issue list is the best way to get things organized. You can all make github ids for free, by the way, and just go subscribe to the issue you care about or add comments. That way when they get addressed you can try nightlies and the like.

[zzz00m]

And from what @baconpaul has said, it appears the issue has more to do with the coding than the particular DAW, so until the new devs can find someone familiar with the coding, this issue may have to wait--and I can understand that.

So it’s a mix actually. Zoom works fine in AU/Logic, Abelton, FL/VST3, Reaper windows, Carla/VST2 etc... we have a pretty long list.

But there’s a few hosts (Cakewalk, Tracktion, Renoise, Reaper/Linux, EnergyXT even more drastically) where the way I implemented zoom in Surge doesn’t work. There’s three /reasons for that I see

1. For VST3 - VST3 has an API to resize windows. Cakewalk seems to be calling it in a way I don’t expect. Cakewalk may be wrong. I may be wrong. But clearly something is wrong.
2. For VST2 - there isn’t really a VST2 resize API per se. There are things you can call where hosts de-facto resize but it is way less consistent. The way hosts have implemented VST2 and the way I am calling resize doesn’t seem to work.
3. VSTGUI is in the mix. I had to fix quite a lot of bugs in VSTGUI to make surge work (in fact, surge has to build against a forked / patched version of VSTGUI since there were problems with their zoom/transform code) and it’s hard to tell where a host goes wrong, where my API call goes wrong, or where VSTGUI goes wrong.

Thanks for the explanation!

I also have Ableton Live 10 and Studio One 4.5 for Windows, and Surge seems to work great in them.

I started out with Sonar and have used it for years, but when Gibson shut Cakewalk down, I went looking for other options. I still keep Cakewalk around mostly for messing with synths and sound design.

But now that I am learning Ableton, and since they have FINALLY added VST3 support to the latest Live version, I will probably be using it a bit more for my soft synths.

I will mention one indirect workaround that has allowed me to use the Surge zoom while using Cakewalk. And that is to first insert an instance of NI Komplete Kontrol (which is itself a plugin host) as a plugin in Cakewalk, and THEN load Surge as a plugin within Komplete Kontrol. Then you can use the zoom feature in Surge as you wish!

The Komplete Kontrol UI auto zooms internally to the scale of any plugin that it has in active focus. The current version of Komplete Kontrol supports most 3rd party plugins and keyboards now, not just the NKS compatible ones.

This trick obviously separates Surge and Cakewalk from any direct host/plugin UI interaction. Probably not much help, but I thought I would share that.