The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

[Klinke]

Then, once we get to that famous "Q4" (last quarter of the year) monthly payments will kick in... imagine if month by month happens to have more perks or it just happens to be cheaper than the $249/year blunderspunk-quick-Jimmies just bought into... also by that time they may realize "f**k, I've only used Byome in three months cuz I've been noodling with that same loop nonstop while eating cheetos..." or "even though this compressor is a game changer and I've put it in all of my tracks... song still stinks."
And then imagine that PluginAnnoyance greed kicks in in November and we start seeing flash sales, surprise vouchers, blah blah blah... again. If by that time there is a plugin I need that's when I'll buy.
Briefly, if we can categorize all the potential and de-facto clientele of PluginAnnoyance, we may see that the shit sandwich gets passed around these groups from time to time, so they can assure profitability. The faster you jump on a train the bigger the bite...
By the way, I copied all these "potential" ideas from The Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter, Witch... so you know they're true.

Sorry, but I find it unacceptable to attack other users who have different preferences and needs then you. And I can assure you, that I don't noodling the the same loop nonstop for three month, one of the reasons for me why I decided to mainly work with products from PA is, that they fit my needs well enough so that I don't see any need to continue searching for new products from different developers. Which save a lot of time as I don't need to create new accounts, learn new registration procedures (and sometime troubleshooting the installation, I'm looking at you XLN Audio), and can just make music instead.

[Klinke]

You can‘t really compare a subscription for Netflix/Spotify with one for plugins. Netflix/Spotify is for entertainment. Movies especially are something you only really watch once or twice. If it‘s a good movie you‘ll watch it more often, so buying it would make sense. Music is something different, but if you compare the price with the value of a subscription, it makes a lot more sense economically. You could still buy single songs here and there, have something you really value and are happy with.

I can understand this for Netflix, as I do not watch movies several times (with only a view exceptions), but not for Spotify. For me creating a nice user-libary in Spotify is more a lock-in into a subscription as a plugin subscription, and so I still prefer to buy a Vinyl album every month to something like Spotify.

Now, a plugin subscription a) costs more and b) if it ends you have nothing.
So after, let’s say 3 years, you end your subscription because money is tight, you have nothing but projects rendered useless. You paid 600-750$ and get nothing after that. This money could have been used to buy around 8-10 plugins you REALLY use and want to use again in the future. Buying plugins on top of your subscription? You could. But now we are talking about an annual expense of 200 pear year sub plus cost of plugins on top.

First: I pay nearly the same for Netflix then for the PA subscription (okay, my Netflix account is also used by my fiance). Second: Of course I have something when the subscription ends. I have had a lot of fun making music with the plugins, and likely I have created some song using the plugins. And I had gather experience which plugins I REALLY use and want to use again, I plan to buy those when they are going to sale. In the past I have bought a lot of plugins I thought that I will really use them, and then never did. I'm pretty sure that I have paid in average more then 180$ per year for those.

[Robmobius]

Uh... Didn't PA also say in one of their initial emails about the 'new plugin alliance' that they were going to reduce their prices?

I can't say I've noticed any reductions... Was that a fib? Hmmm...

[PieBerger]

Uh... Didn't PA also say in one of their initial emails about the 'new plugin alliance' that they were going to reduce their prices?

I can't say I've noticed any reductions... Was that a fib? Hmmm...

Some of the UA plugins have definitely been reduced, ZIP for example is $99 instead of $149.

[carlosigls]

I would like to know how much Dimitri Sches sells now when Thorn now costs more than 200 euros.

[DawnInEden]

Uh... Didn't PA also say in one of their initial emails about the 'new plugin alliance' that they were going to reduce their prices?

I can't say I've noticed any reductions... Was that a fib? Hmmm...

Some of the UA plugins have definitely been reduced, ZIP for example is $99 instead of $149.

Correct, but their overall price policy is still the same. They reduced the plugins which probably hardly sell, even if a sale is going on.

[Teawhyelleare]

So what's going on? Haven't had time to pay much attention to music stuff lately.

Plugin Alliance is aliasing terribly

Hahahah, nice one

[Teawhyelleare]

I would like to know how much Dimitri Sches sells now when Thorn now costs more than 200 euros.

I've always wondered how much the smaller developers make on their deals with PA. I genuinely thought I was supporting Unfiltered Audio with my purchase of all of their plugins this holiday, and I was so excited to be buying in and sending them money. It's so strange to see their licenses going for $5-$15 here every day now. Likewise, I love DSaudio; Dimitri is such a great dude, and I think his creations are brilliant. I hope that the decision to join PA is going alright for him.

Thing is, it must still make good financial sense for them. I remember when I first learned about diversion. It was by far the highest quality, most innovative, and most inspiring synth I had tried. So I shot him a quick note to express some of my excitement, appreciation, and gratitude, and to ask him some questions about his design. I told him that I would be back to buy it as soon as I could afford it.

He wrote me back within just a couple of hours, went above and beyond in answering all of my questions and genuinely responding to me, and offered me a voucher for basically 60% off. I have seen tantra on various sites going for 60%+ discounts. Deep discounts on thorn too, here and there. Of course, I bought all of them at super low prices, but since I care about the dude, I bought multiple licenses and gave them to my audio friends who likely wouldn't have purchased them on their own.

What I am getting at, is that a lot of the small developers so rarely see a sale or get any attention, that even if only 2% of plugin alliance customers bite, at most any price, they are probably still stoked and count it as an improvement from their previous conditions. After speaking with lots of my favorite developers, it's become rather clear that many of them don't see a dime until they run some crazy sale or get picked up by a bigger platform. It's really all kind of disgusting to me. I have so much respect for the beings/companies that have stood their ground and who literally don't run sales (they all seem to be some of the best dudes alive, too), but I also empathize with the position that some others find themselves in.

Please forgive the mini rant. Watching this all unfold is fascinating.

[Caine123]

well i can confirm that pa ignores posts and especially doesnt publish even neutral asking questions which show and proof their lies. nice PA! and thats why you mostly see positive comments on FB! f*ck this!

i give up, will only check plugins in future and no FB groups etc. companies keep bullshitting but too many supporters which dont interest shady f*ck tactics.glad kvr is around!

[carlosigls]

I would like to know how much Dimitri Sches sells now when Thorn now costs more than 200 euros.

I've always wondered how much the smaller developers make on their deals with PA. I genuinely thought I was supporting Unfiltered Audio with my purchase of all of their plugins this holiday, and I was so excited to be buying in and sending them money. It's so strange to see their licenses going for $5-$15 here every day now. Likewise, I love DSaudio; Dimitri is such a great dude, and I think his creations are brilliant. I hope that the decision to join PA is going alright for him.

Thing is, it must still make good financial sense for them. I remember when I first learned about diversion. It was by far the highest quality, most innovative, and most inspiring synth I had tried. So I shot him a quick note to express some of my excitement, appreciation, and gratitude, and to ask him some questions about his design. I told him that I would be back to buy it as soon as I could afford it.

He wrote me back within just a couple of hours, went above and beyond in answering all of my questions and genuinely responding to me, and offered me a voucher for basically 60% off. I have seen tantra on various sites going for 60%+ discounts. Deep discounts on thorn too, here and there. Of course, I bought all of them at super low prices, but since I care about the dude, I bought multiple licenses and gave them to my audio friends who likely wouldn't have purchased them on their own.

What I am getting at, is that a lot of the small developers so rarely see a sale or get any attention, that even if only 2% of plugin alliance customers bite, at most any price, they are probably still stoked and count it as an improvement from their previous conditions. After speaking with lots of my favorite developers, it's become rather clear that many of them don't see a dime until they run some crazy sale or get picked up by a bigger platform. It's really all kind of disgusting to me. I have so much respect for the beings/companies that have stood their ground and who literally don't run sales (they all seem to be some of the best dudes alive, too), but I also empathize with the position that some others find themselves in.

Please forgive the mini rant. Watching this all unfold is fascinating.

You are forgiven

[cptgone]

Here is someone who has one PA plugin.

First of all, when I was working I had money to spare and bought plugins which proved to be very useful for me - now, if I had bought a subscription, I wouldn’t be able to use them now, as I am a student again and money is tight.
Does a subscription make sense? Yes. For businesses and/or someone who earns money with music.

You can‘t really compare a subscription for Netflix/Spotify with one for plugins.
Netflix/Spotify is for entertainment. Movies especially are something you only really watch once or twice. If it‘s a good movie you‘ll watch it more often, so buying it would make sense. Music is something different, but if you compare the price with the value of a subscription, it makes a lot more sense economically. You could still buy single songs here and there, have something you really value and are happy with.
Now, a plugin subscription a) costs more and b) if it ends you have nothing.

In the case of Spotify, people are lured in by a service that actually adds value (one doesn't have to carry one's music collection around, doesn't need to backup data; then there's the algorithm, combined with unprecedented access to music past and present).

Whereas PA hardly ever even updates the products she markets so clumsily.

[mrdoghead]

Censorship is a state function. Private companies can delete web posts, cut your microphone at a shareholder meeting, call the cops to pummel you when you protest outside their offices, and ignore you, but - short of killing you, which happens - they cannot prevent you from sharing your opinions. They can limit what you do in their own spaces. That is not censorship - it is not close to censorship.

It's obnoxious. It's disrespectful, coming from a retailer who has taken your money. (Some of the customer comments are also those things, and the anii at PA are under no obligation to indulge those in the PA feed.) What it is not is censorship.

Actual censorship is a far worse thing than having a Facebook post deleted.

Just a point of order - the term is abused by people who have never had to live with the real thing.

To stay on topic, software developers love the idea of subscriptions. Few customers do. Usually a key selling point of subscriptions coming from devs is financing support and updates. It is curious that PA don't give that angle a run even in this context. Their allergy to fixing problems in their apps persists even while they flog a new subscription service.

Do not hold your breath waiting for bug fixes.

[AdvancedFollower]

Now, a plugin subscription a) costs more and b) if it ends you have nothing.
So after, let’s say 3 years, you end your subscription because money is tight, you have nothing but projects rendered useless. You paid 600-750$ and get nothing after that. This money could have been used to buy around 8-10 plugins you REALLY use and want to use again in the future. Buying plugins on top of your subscription? You could. But now we are talking about an annual expense of 200 pear year sub plus cost of plugins on top.

I work in IT, and subscriptions to stuff like Office 365 and Adobe are absolutely fantastic for us. We don't have to spend hours managing, planning, auditing and budgeting for licenses (as well as paid updates, support plans etc.). When we get a new employee, we just add another seat to the subscription. When an employee quits, we remove one. We have absolutely no reason to keep a bunch of perpetual licenses around if they aren't being used. It's very easy to get an overview of the number of licenses available and in use, and the costs are extremely predictable from month to month. This by far outweighs any cost "savings" from buying perpetual licenses.
If you're running a huge studio/production house or educational institution, I suppose it's the same thing. $24.99 per person, per month vs trying to individually manage hundreds of licenses as people come and go.

For hobbyists, the scheme makes absolutely no sense, however.

[DawnInEden]

I would like to know how much Dimitri Sches sells now when Thorn now costs more than 200 euros.

After speaking with lots of my favorite developers, it's become rather clear that many of them don't see a dime until they run some crazy sale or get picked up by a bigger platform.

This isn't luckily always the case. The guy who is behind Klanghelm, also a one man show, made this his living and said in an interview, that he's doing quite well.
It maybe helped him alot, that almost any "star" producer / mixer mentioned his work in the most positive way.

[jens]

Sorry, but I find it unacceptable to attack to other users who have different preferences and needs then you.

He did not attack anyone.