The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
perpetual3
KVRian
950 posts since 28 Sep, 2012

Post Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:15 am

DawnInEden wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:44 am
vurt wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:40 am
you get paid more if you code naked.
20 years ago maybe. Today I get paid extra, if I don't take off my clothes at all.
:lol:

perpetual3
KVRian
950 posts since 28 Sep, 2012

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:16 am

plexuss wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:21 am
jochicago wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:53 am
plexuss wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:24 am
Dubious. From direct experience employee overhead is in the 20-40% range over-and above salary.
When you count management (HR), taxes, benefits, plus all the costs of office space and supplies, you'll cross the 2x line in every scenario. You can only stay at 30-40% if you are only focusing on salary-related costs, not business-running costs.
From 300% to 200%. So this is negotiable. :) I've never seen a business with a 200-300% employee over-head. We must work in different industries. Even those in a couple other industries I know that are employers have confirmed the 20-40%, maybe 50% in extreme cases, of over-head. But no matter... just trying to provide a different validated reality.

Think about it: you are saying that a $50k employee costs the company an additional $50k-100k in over-head?? Sorry. Maybe if they are a company that is about to go out of business.

Perhaps you can provide some real examples? Here's mine: In my industry, digital design, I know the over-head in agencies per employee is around 40%-50% from conversations with HR people. In automotive, my dads industry, its about the same. I also know a dentist with a large practice and he confirms 40-50%, which is why associates working there on contract only get 40-50% of their billings.
When I was an attorney I wish I got 50% of my billing!

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martinjuenke
KVRAF
4087 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Hanover, Germany

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:27 am

DawnInEden wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:33 am
yehboy1 wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:29 am
Who told me what? That tech companies use freelancers? Or about the guy coding 10 hours a week? The latter was a way of talking about today's reality, not that I literally mean that PA uses a freelancer that code 10 hours a week for them.
I was kidding and more or less referring to the coding in underwear :). I am a freelance developer, but not in audio.
... but in underwear :scared:
Flowing atmospheric music
http://www.sonoryth.bandcamp.com/music

SLiC
KVRAF
3773 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:29 am

audio/fault wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:33 am
they could learn so much from waves... :hihi: :hihi:

Image
That is actually 155 USD in cart at AudioDeluxe - 3 bucks a plug in!
i7 Win 10 PC+ Surface, BWS, StudioOne 4, Cubase10, Live9, X32 Desk. , DM12, P8, Virus TI, Syst1m, 500hp Eurorack, Elektron A4, RYTM, OT, Heat, Digitone, Deluge, MPC Live, OP-Z, Mother+DFAM, Drums, Guitars, Basses and Amps

yehboy1
KVRist
452 posts since 13 Mar, 2017

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:36 am

jochicago wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:11 am
We can move to PM not to derail
I think the thread is way past that mark.

I mean, we're talking about coding naked now. Or in underwear, for the more prudish.

User avatar
mgw38
KVRAF
1908 posts since 26 Jul, 2015 from Philadelphia

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:56 am

plexuss wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:21 am
jochicago wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:53 am
plexuss wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:24 am
Dubious. From direct experience employee overhead is in the 20-40% range over-and above salary.
When you count management (HR), taxes, benefits, plus all the costs of office space and supplies, you'll cross the 2x line in every scenario. You can only stay at 30-40% if you are only focusing on salary-related costs, not business-running costs.
From 300% to 200%. So this is negotiable. :) I've never seen a business with a 200-300% employee over-head. We must work in different industries. Even those in a couple other industries I know that are employers have confirmed the 20-40%, maybe 50% in extreme cases, of over-head. But no matter... just trying to provide a different validated reality.
It depends a lot of what you are talking about. When people say "overhead costs" they usually mean "fringe costs" and those usually hover around 35%. Quite surprisingly they are about the same in the US and in Europe. However, US companies are not legally required to provide certain benefits, so it is possible for US companies to lower their fringe costs quite a bit. Only works for certain industries, usually either for unskilled labor or if there is a large pool of skilled freelancers. I think the 20%-40% estimate is a good one.

Overhead costs, however, are a bit of a can of worms because it is not completely clear what you factor into those. Depending on how you calculate them, they can be substantially higher. I don't think I have ever seen anything above 100% though. In Europe we used to calculate with 60-70%, in the US I am usually dealing more in the 50-60% range.

jens
KVRAF
19586 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:13 am

SLiC wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:29 am
That is actually 155 USD in cart at AudioDeluxe - 3 bucks a plug in!
Yes, but most of these are pretty much outdated now. So how many of them are you really going to use?

Waves has quite a few great plugins (which - unlike most of my PA plugin - I actually use on a regular basis) but there is really not much of that in there.

Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
6552 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:14 am

SLiC wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:29 am
audio/fault wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:33 am
they could learn so much from waves... :hihi: :hihi:

Image
That is actually 155 USD in cart at AudioDeluxe - 3 bucks a plug in!
And still somehow overpriced. :wink:

[I'm just being a snob and have so many plugins the bundle adds no value to me.]

SLiC
KVRAF
3773 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:27 am

jens wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:13 am
SLiC wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:29 am
That is actually 155 USD in cart at AudioDeluxe - 3 bucks a plug in!
Yes, but most of these are pretty much outdated now. So how many of them are you really going to use?

Waves has quite a few great plugins (which - unlike most of my PA plugin - I actually use on a regular basis) but there is really not much of that in there.
Yeh, I agree...I personally find no need for these (or PA) single, strips or fx etc, I have it covered several times over... but it’s the same kinda deal....have it All for xxx and use just a couple of the occasionally.. it’s not value.
i7 Win 10 PC+ Surface, BWS, StudioOne 4, Cubase10, Live9, X32 Desk. , DM12, P8, Virus TI, Syst1m, 500hp Eurorack, Elektron A4, RYTM, OT, Heat, Digitone, Deluge, MPC Live, OP-Z, Mother+DFAM, Drums, Guitars, Basses and Amps

jens
KVRAF
19586 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:29 am

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:14 am
SLiC wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:29 am
audio/fault wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:33 am
they could learn so much from waves... :hihi: :hihi:
That is actually 155 USD in cart at AudioDeluxe - 3 bucks a plug in!
And still somehow overpriced. :wink:

[I'm just being a snob and have so many plugins the bundle adds no value to me.]
No, you are not being a snob. They don't add value because they are old and many of us have been purchasing plugins for several years now and then there's also some great free stuff and our host(s) come with more plugins of increasing quality.

I clearly prefer Waves over PA overall and many of Waves plugins are an absolute steal at 29$ - but Platinum has very few of these.

jens
KVRAF
19586 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:39 am

SLiC wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:27 am
Yeh, I agree...I personally find no need for these (or PA) single, strips or fx etc, I have it covered several times over... but it’s the same kinda deal....have it All for xxx and use just a couple of the occasionally.. it’s not value.

Yes, exactly. Which is basically also my main point throughout this thread.

PA don't need to sell me their stuff for 4$. They just need to try harder to offer something that is really worthwhile - they have so much overlap in their catalogue it's not funny anymore. Unfiltered Audio aside the have only one delay, one reverb* - and both aren't very popular - perhaps that's because they just aren't very good. And yet they keep churning out compressors and EQs and channel-strips (i.e. more compressors and EQs) as if their life depended upon it. And I am not really very keen on buying more of these - especially since (as I mentioned before here) I think they are done half-arsedly and without love for detail.
And a subscription is most definitely the last thing that will motivate me to throw more money at them.




(*I'm not trying to say that I need more reverbs or delays though - I certainly don't :hihi:)

DawnInEden
KVRist
74 posts since 19 Oct, 2018

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:09 pm

jens wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:29 am
Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:14 am
SLiC wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:29 am
audio/fault wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:33 am
they could learn so much from waves... :hihi: :hihi:
That is actually 155 USD in cart at AudioDeluxe - 3 bucks a plug in!
And still somehow overpriced. :wink:

[I'm just being a snob and have so many plugins the bundle adds no value to me.]
No, you are not being a snob. They don't add value because they are old and many of us have been purchasing plugins for several years now and then there's also some great free stuff and our host(s) come with more plugins of increasing quality.

I clearly prefer Waves over PA overall and many of Waves plugins are an absolute steal at 29$ - but Platinum has very few of these.
You're both not wrong. But for starters it's still a good deal. I don't remember what I paid for Horizon, but it wasn't soooo much. If you find 8 to 10 plugins in that Platinum offer, the price is still very good. And some of the older stuff is still great. The renaissance plugins for example.

graspee
KVRist
57 posts since 1 Jan, 2018

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:58 pm

I already have gold, Waves is not tempting me in the slightest to pay $199 for:

L2 Ultramaximizer
L3 Ultramaximizer
L3-LL Ultramaximizer
Linear Phase EQ
Linear Phase Multiband
MaxxVolume
OneKnob Driver
PuigTec EQs
Renaissance Bass
Renaissance Channel
Renaissance DeEsser
Renaissance Vox

User avatar
mgw38
KVRAF
1908 posts since 26 Jul, 2015 from Philadelphia

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:04 pm

graspee wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:58 pm
I already have gold, Waves is not tempting me in the slightest to pay $199
You would not have to. You can upgrade. Log into your account and check the upgrade price. Should be much lower.

escalona
KVRist
457 posts since 16 Jan, 2018 from Portland, OR USA

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:43 pm

graspee wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:58 pm
I already have gold, Waves is not tempting me in the slightest to pay $199 for:

L2 Ultramaximizer
L3 Ultramaximizer
L3-LL Ultramaximizer
Linear Phase EQ
Linear Phase Multiband
MaxxVolume
OneKnob Driver
PuigTec EQs
Renaissance Bass
Renaissance Channel
Renaissance DeEsser
Renaissance Vox
I upgraded 3/4 years ago to platinum from gold for about $40 and then again to horizon+ren+something else for about the same. And every time you upgrade you also get another year of wup. Great deals happen usually around Black Friday / Christmas (50% or more) and beginning of summer (50%).

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