Ableton Live Envelopes vs. MIDI CC Output

[2:43AM]

No response back, but here's some good news, per Ableton Live Beta's current (10.1.2b3) release notes:

"BUG FIXES: On Windows, MIDI CC, Channel Pressure, and Pitch Bend events are now sent out smoothly via MIDI at buffer sizes of 128 and below."

Now that is frickin' awesome! That means if all tests well, then we all can expect the fix in the next public release of Live. Overall, I'm glad I could be responsible--at least partly--to bring an end to the CC bug that has hindered Live since version 9.7 (and possibly earlier versions, but I only own back to 9.7).

In my long-winded email dated 5/26/19 to Ableton Support, maybe it was this statement that caused 'em to fold on embarassment:

So I feel that audio buffer size should not negatively impact MIDI output from Live. I mean, maybe it mattered back in the mid to late 1990's, but certainly not in the modern DAW computer where the processor and handling of data is about 40-50x faster! And a buffer size of "128" is a modest buffer size at 44.1kHz. Now if I ran "64" or "32", then I could *maybe* agree with the behavior, but certainly not "128" (8.67ms latency) or "256."

[Daru925]

Hey ive been posting a similar issue on their beta forum a while ago but had no response.
Its problem with midi cc, but internal parameters too and really depends of the vst/vsti used.
Here i post a simple pluck sequence 1/16th note with straight ramp down modulation curves.

https://instaud.io/3Xr4

1 massive's performer
2. m4l shaper
3. ableton automation curves
4.charlatan vsti (enveloppes are logarithmic, not straight)
5.ableton automation straight curve.

You can see (er hear) expected results varies greatly.

It seems depending of the complexity/internal routing of the synth/effect, there is no way to apply pdc properly. Is the latency reported per plugin, or per "event"? So its all luck. In massive's case if you automate within live, you get "smoothed" plucks, whereas in charlatan it behaves properly.
This is not to bash a specific plugin or live (fm8 works flawlessly and many third party vsti have the same "issue"), maybe vst3 solves these kind of issues?

I'm using live 10.1 x64 windows 7 at 96khz and 512 buffer (changing settings doesnt fix anything)

[Reefius]

No response back, but here's some good news, per Ableton Live Beta's current (10.1.2b3) release notes:

"BUG FIXES: On Windows, MIDI CC, Channel Pressure, and Pitch Bend events are now sent out smoothly via MIDI at buffer sizes of 128 and below."

Interesting, definitely gonna check if it's really fixed

Edit: Just tested with 2 external synths and it's working perfectly with audio buffer at 64

[tooneba]

No response back, but here's some good news, per Ableton Live Beta's current (10.1.2b3) release notes:

"BUG FIXES: On Windows, MIDI CC, Channel Pressure, and Pitch Bend events are now sent out smoothly via MIDI at buffer sizes of 128 and below."

Now that is frickin' awesome! That means if all tests well, then we all can expect the fix in the next public release of Live. Overall, I'm glad I could be responsible--at least partly--to bring an end to the CC bug that has hindered Live since version 9.7 (and possibly earlier versions, but I only own back to 9.7).

In my long-winded email dated 5/26/19 to Ableton Support, maybe it was this statement that caused 'em to fold on embarassment:

So I feel that audio buffer size should not negatively impact MIDI output from Live. I mean, maybe it mattered back in the mid to late 1990's, but certainly not in the modern DAW computer where the processor and handling of data is about 40-50x faster! And a buffer size of "128" is a modest buffer size at 44.1kHz. Now if I ran "64" or "32", then I could *maybe* agree with the behavior, but certainly not "128" (8.67ms latency) or "256."

Nice. So it was actually a bug. They may respond to you when they are ready to release stable version, or not.

[Buka]

Also if u try to map an empty drum rack macro knob to a midi cc(external synth filter knob) and try to modulate it (modulation envelope) cause u have an option to do it, it does nothing. The modulation is shown like moving circle on the macro knob but there is nothing sent to the external synth. If u want to automate the same knob via automation envelope it strangely works.
Like they did it so automation works for everything(vst's and external synths) and modulation just for internal synths and vst's.

Ableton is full of bugs like this.

Cheers,
M