DUNE 3 is now available!!

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
chk071
KVRAF
21181 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:01 am

Dim Vision wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:36 am
I'm confused by the way keytracking seems to function in Dune 3. In my limited experience, when I increase a parameter like filter keytracking in other synths such as Hive 2 the cutoff frequency decreases for lower notes and increases for higher notes, but in Dune 3 (demo) it just sounds to me like the cutoff frequency increases for all notes as I increase keytracking.

For example, if I'm using a LP filter all notes become brighter as keytracking amount is increased.
Same in Dune 2. It's something which always bothered me.

I think the pivot note for keytracking is simply set too high.

Dim Vision
KVRist
62 posts since 1 Jul, 2017

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:44 am

chk071 wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:01 am
Same in Dune 2. It's something which always bothered me.

I think the pivot note for keytracking is simply set too high.
Do you ever manage to make worthwhile use of keytracking, or have you simply abandoned the parameter altogether?

It seems I could raise the cutoff frequency parameter instead to achieve a similar effect, making keytracking rather redundant, though perhaps I just haven't created a patch yet with which it can be easily heard.

Mattvk19
KVRer
4 posts since 25 Jul, 2019

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:10 am

Hello,

For different reasons do i like Dune 2 more than Version 3. When i purchase D3. Is it possible to get the older ones too?

mrsugmad
KVRist
75 posts since 30 Nov, 2007

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:59 am

If you talking about the patches, Dune 3 comes with all the Dune 2 patches....

Mattvk19
KVRer
4 posts since 25 Jul, 2019

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:27 am

No,

I meant the last 2.x Version of D2.

chk071
KVRAF
21181 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:32 am

Why though? Dune 3 has the same sound engine, same filters, same everything. It's even patch compatible.

Mattvk19
KVRer
4 posts since 25 Jul, 2019

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:04 am

Can´t explain. I don´t get the results with D3 i get with D2. Maybe it´s the GUI or the less options.
I better focus on it.

chk071
KVRAF
21181 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:11 am

Ok. I remember there was an option to buy Dune 2 after Dune 3 was released. Not sure if it's still possible. I don't see any way on Synapse's website.

User avatar
Teksonik
KVRAF
12609 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:24 am

On the subject of Keytracking. From the manual:

Keytrack
The KTRK knob determines how much the cutoff frequency is affected by the MIDI key
number. Set to zero, all notes share the very same cutoff frequency as specified by the CUTOFF
parameter.

Nonzero values move the cutoff according to the key pressed, with higher keys corresponding
to higher cutoff frequencies. At low settings, this parameter is useful to create subtle timbre
variations when different notes are played.At higher settings, key tracking can be used to simulate
the properties of acoustic instruments that have a varying timbre dependent on the note played.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Dim Vision
KVRist
62 posts since 1 Jul, 2017

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:29 pm

Teksonik wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:24 am
On the subject of Keytracking. From the manual:

Keytrack
The KTRK knob determines how much the cutoff frequency is affected by the MIDI key
number. Set to zero, all notes share the very same cutoff frequency as specified by the CUTOFF
parameter.

Nonzero values move the cutoff according to the key pressed, with higher keys corresponding
to higher cutoff frequencies. At low settings, this parameter is useful to create subtle timbre
variations when different notes are played.At higher settings, key tracking can be used to simulate
the properties of acoustic instruments that have a varying timbre dependent on the note played.
Thanks, but I've read the manual. Even so, I'm not able to hear anything other than the cutoff being raised, as though it were simply an alternative cutoff knob. Granted, I haven't thoroughly tested very high and very low octaves — perhaps here is where it takes effect due to a higher than average pivot note.

In any case, in my initial testing it didn't have the rather easily discernable effect that keytracking has on the other synths I'm familiar with. If you have the time, maybe you could put together a simple patch which makes use of keytracking in a way that makes it easy to hear the intended effect it has on the sound – which I expect shouldn't simply be a case of opening the cutoff across the entire range of notes.
Last edited by Dim Vision on Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

AnX
KVRAF
5051 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:35 pm

Mattvk19 wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:04 am
Can´t explain. I don´t get the results with D3 i get with D2. Maybe it´s the GUI or the less options.
I better focus on it.
placebo

Dim Vision
KVRist
62 posts since 1 Jul, 2017

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:08 pm

AnX wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:35 pm
Mattvk19 wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:04 am
Can´t explain. I don´t get the results with D3 i get with D2. Maybe it´s the GUI or the less options.
I better focus on it.
placebo
Could instead be nocebo – if Mattvk19 approached D3 with a negative frame, e.g. "upgrade price too steep", reinforced by Availability cascade, i.e. repeating to himself, "I don't know, D2 just sounds better" and furthermore, by Confirmation bias as he attempts to discover "why D2 sounds better", unconsciously seeking out only the "evidence" that confirms his held belief. Finally, when forum users provide disconfirming evidence, his convictions are all but sealed by the Backfire effect and Belief revision, much to the chagrin of understandably weary forum-goers.

Come to think of it, one might even point to an underpinning Declinism, whereby Mattvk19 has a grim outlook and attitude toward change (the future), but looks back at D2 (the past) with rosy retrospection – and to further complicate matters, Mattvk19's ostensibly high, inexplicable regard for D2 in contrast to D3 might even suggest the presence of the Mere-exposure effect. He's simply used to using and hearing D2, but is unable to attribute his preference for it to mere familiarity, believing it to possess remarkable qualities that he can't quite put a finger on.

Our thoughts are with you Mattvk19. You'll come through. :hug:

recursive one
KVRAF
4041 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:36 am

Mattvk19 wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:04 am
Can´t explain. I don´t get the results with D3 i get with D2. Maybe it´s the GUI or the less options.
I better focus on it.
Actually the only big difference in the GUI is the second filter, which is disabled in the default patch and which you can just ignore if you don't need it. Everything else is just some extra knobs in the osc section, extra arp2 knob and some extra points in the dropdown menu.

I think you can just e-mail Rich and ask him if he gives you D2 installer if you buy D3.

For me it was actually the new Dune3 filters and the new effects (saturation, phaser, chorus etc) that made me love and actually use Dune, Dune2 sounded somehow too digital and "software" to me which is efficiently fixed by the new AM filters and a sometimes a bit of saturation. Not sure if it's not placebo though, but I'm really happy with D3. :)
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try

v1o
KVRAF
1723 posts since 2 Oct, 2004

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:10 am

Maybe it's not placebo. Do a null test with the same patch from D2 and D3. There could be under the hood changes.
Orion Platinum, Muzys 2

AnX
KVRAF
5051 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:13 am

there isnt, a D2 patch sounds identical in D3

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