Tone2 Icarus 1.6 Released

[SLiC]

Lets Hope MX is good when its finished, the basic sound is very good, but nothing game changing, just 'another' good wavetable synth like Pigments, Dune, Hive2 etc...which has the best 'sound' is personal preference (OK, its Dune 3 ) For now Icarus is probably the most full featured and complete of all of the WT synths and V2 may be even better

[pdxindy]

Oh, well we all know that Native Instruments released Massive X six months too early. I agree with all your points, it’s definitely not finished, but I think when it is, it will be hot.

It could potentially end up really good... and it might not. It could be an excellent MPE synth. It was disappointing for me that they called it a next gen synth and then it is so lacking in basics. No matter... I'll check it out again in a year or so.

[pdxindy]

Lets Hope MX is good when its finished, the basic sound is very good, but nothing game changing, just 'another' good wavetable synth like Pigments, Dune, Hive2 etc...which has the best 'sound' is personal preference (OK, its Dune 3 ) For now Icarus is probably the most full featured and complete of all of the WT synths and V2 may be even better

I do not consider MX to be in the wavetable category. All the others you mention can import user wavetables. For example, in all the others I can create some vocal wavetables and make interesting vocal presets from them. No can do in MX.

To me that is such a huge difference in terms of capability that there should be a different name/category.

[recursive one]

Lets Hope MX is good when its finished, the basic sound is very good, but nothing game changing, just 'another' good wavetable synth like Pigments, Dune, Hive2 etc...which has the best 'sound' is personal preference (OK, its Dune 3 ) For now Icarus is probably the most full featured and complete of all of the WT synths and V2 may be even better

I do not consider MX to be in the wavetable category. All the others you mention can import user wavetables. For example, in all the others I can create some vocal wavetables and make interesting vocal presets from them. No can do in MX.

To me that is such a huge difference in terms of capability that there should be a different name/category.

In my very humble opinion, wavetable import is overrated. I can't import any fkn wavetable into my Virus TI but the sounds I'm getting out of its factory wavetables are out of this world. I also have Rapid and Serum which can import wavetables and guess what? Most of the time I use their factory WTs and when I don't I use Virus TI WTs which some very generous dude has recorded and shared for free.

I'm not an expert sound designer, but I prefer making my own presets for all my tracks and for that matter I found that factory wavetables made by pros and tailored to be used with the synth's own sound shaping algorithms, such as osc FX, crossmodulation and stuff, tend to work better than any random garbage I can make myself or find on the web.

[chk071]

I agree, even though i think that most synths ship with totally shitty wavetables. The only decent ones in the synths i own are in Waldorf Largo (and... there's some garbage in that as well). It's really unfortunate that developers supply wavetable capabilities, and then don't bother to include proper wavetables.

As far as i know, the wavetables in the Virus are from Waldorf's Wolfram Franke, so, i assume they're nice.

[JunSev]

Lets Hope MX is good when its finished, the basic sound is very good, but nothing game changing, just 'another' good wavetable synth like Pigments, Dune, Hive2 etc...which has the best 'sound' is personal preference (OK, its Dune 3 ) For now Icarus is probably the most full featured and complete of all of the WT synths and V2 may be even better

I do not consider MX to be in the wavetable category. All the others you mention can import user wavetables. For example, in all the others I can create some vocal wavetables and make interesting vocal presets from them. No can do in MX.

To me that is such a huge difference in terms of capability that there should be a different name/category.

In my very humble opinion, wavetable import is overrated. I can't import any fkn wavetable into my Virus TI but the sounds I'm getting out of its factory wavetables are out of this world. I also have Rapid and Serum which can import wavetables and guess what? Most of the time I use their factory WTs and when I don't I use Virus TI WTs which some very generous dude has recorded and shared for free.

I'm not an expert sound designer, but I prefer making my own presets for all my tracks and for that matter I found that factory wavetables made by pros and tailored to be used with the synth's own sound shaping algorithms, such as osc FX, crossmodulation and stuff, tend to work better than any random garbage I can make myself or find on the web.

Please speak for yourself and your limitation-oriented mind; I already have seen some people thinking stuffs like this and what a big nonsense...

And is the same I say always, you don't appreciate deep wavetables editing and the possibility to change from the so common VA shapes (saw, square, sine, triangle...) to thousands of different forms and sound character, better don't talk nonsense. If it is for people like this we still would continue using the same monotonous VA synthesis.

Thanks to the wavetables editing and collections capabilities we can get closer to imitation and resynthesis of real/or other synths/instruments, the wavetables makes posible sounds with their own character and originality.

And really is great that we have the possibility to have hundreds or thousands of different wavetables/waveform/resynthesis shapes available always than being stock and limited by predefined shapes.

With all respect.

[recursive one]

Lets Hope MX is good when its finished, the basic sound is very good, but nothing game changing, just 'another' good wavetable synth like Pigments, Dune, Hive2 etc...which has the best 'sound' is personal preference (OK, its Dune 3 ) For now Icarus is probably the most full featured and complete of all of the WT synths and V2 may be even better

I do not consider MX to be in the wavetable category. All the others you mention can import user wavetables. For example, in all the others I can create some vocal wavetables and make interesting vocal presets from them. No can do in MX.

To me that is such a huge difference in terms of capability that there should be a different name/category.

In my very humble opinion, wavetable import is overrated. I can't import any fkn wavetable into my Virus TI but the sounds I'm getting out of its factory wavetables are out of this world. I also have Rapid and Serum which can import wavetables and guess what? Most of the time I use their factory WTs and when I don't I use Virus TI WTs which some very generous dude has recorded and shared for free.

I'm not an expert sound designer, but I prefer making my own presets for all my tracks and for that matter I found that factory wavetables made by pros and tailored to be used with the synth's own sound shaping algorithms, such as osc FX, crossmodulation and stuff, tend to work better than any random garbage I can make myself or find on the web.

Please speak for yourself and your limitation-oriented mind; I already have seen some people thinking stuffs like this and what a big nonsense...

And is the same I say always, you don't appreciate deep wavetables editing and the possibility to change from the so common VA shapes (saw, square, sine, triangle...) to thousands of different forms and sound character, better don't talk nonsense. If it is for people like this we still would continue using the same monotonous VA synthesis.

Thanks to the wavetables editing and collections capabilities we can get closer to imitation and resynthesis of real/or other synths/instruments, the wavetables makes posible sounds with their own character and originality.

And really is great that we have the possibility to have hundreds or thousands of different wavetables/waveform/resynthesis shapes available always than being stock and limited by predefined shapes.

With all respect.

Okay, if you can't make a good sound with few hundreds of morphable waveforms, free routing, few selectable filter modes...

...then definitely the synth is missing something.

With all respect.

I mean yes, you can find a cool wavetable, import it into a synth, add a basic LP with a basic envelope and the synth will play that cool wavetable with your very custom LP envelope. But what's the point, you could have used a sampler for that.

[zerocrossing]

Lets Hope MX is good when its finished, the basic sound is very good, but nothing game changing, just 'another' good wavetable synth like Pigments, Dune, Hive2 etc...which has the best 'sound' is personal preference (OK, its Dune 3 ) For now Icarus is probably the most full featured and complete of all of the WT synths and V2 may be even better

I do not consider MX to be in the wavetable category. All the others you mention can import user wavetables. For example, in all the others I can create some vocal wavetables and make interesting vocal presets from them. No can do in MX.

To me that is such a huge difference in terms of capability that there should be a different name/category.

I think that’s one of the most bizarre stances I’ve seen. I mean, be critical of it all you want. I sure have. I went on a full on tirade about the UX/UI design (it’s basically terrible) on the NI forum. But to not consider it a wavetable synth... what would call it?

[Echoes in the Attic]

Good to see that the Massive X debacle has spilled into other threads!

[pdxindy]

Lets Hope MX is good when its finished, the basic sound is very good, but nothing game changing, just 'another' good wavetable synth like Pigments, Dune, Hive2 etc...which has the best 'sound' is personal preference (OK, its Dune 3 ) For now Icarus is probably the most full featured and complete of all of the WT synths and V2 may be even better

I do not consider MX to be in the wavetable category. All the others you mention can import user wavetables. For example, in all the others I can create some vocal wavetables and make interesting vocal presets from them. No can do in MX.

To me that is such a huge difference in terms of capability that there should be a different name/category.

I think that’s one of the most bizarre stances I’ve seen. I mean, be critical of it all you want. I sure have. I went on a full on tirade about the UX/UI design (it’s basically terrible) on the NI forum. But to not consider it a wavetable synth... what would call it?

For me it is similar to someone calling a new synth a sampler, but it doesn't allow user samples. To me that is not a sampler. It is more of a Rompler. So I decided to call MX a Wompler...

Hey, none of this is serious... it's not like we are talking about world hunger or something... hehehe

[pdxindy]

In my very humble opinion, wavetable import is overrated. I can't import any fkn wavetable into my Virus TI but the sounds I'm getting out of its factory wavetables are out of this world. I also have Rapid and Serum which can import wavetables and guess what? Most of the time I use their factory WTs

Just because you do something one way, doesn't mean others do it the same way.

I make my own wavetables... and some of the sounds I get from them are out of this world and would not be possible on your TI.

[recursive one]

In my very humble opinion, wavetable import is overrated. I can't import any fkn wavetable into my Virus TI but the sounds I'm getting out of its factory wavetables are out of this world. I also have Rapid and Serum which can import wavetables and guess what? Most of the time I use their factory WTs

Just because you do something one way, doesn't mean others do it the same way.

I make my own wavetables... and some of the sounds I get from them are out of this world and would not be possible on your TI.

I see your point, sure if you have enough skills to make good sounding wavetables with smooth transitions which can be used in a muscial way not covered by the synth's stock content, you totally need WT import, but for me it's not a must-have. TBH, aside from messing with a WT editor in Dune 3 I never really tried to make my own wavetables, to me it seems that if you want to have something that actually sounds good and works well as a wavetable (has smooth and nice transitions) the process must be quite tedious.

I love wavetable synhs with lots of waveform shaping tools that can be controlled in realtime, like Serum's warp, Rapid's osc FX, Virus' grain and formant complex. Massive X also seems to have enough of such tools. Basically you can bend the waveform into a completely different shape, control this in realtime but you don't need to go back and forth between the synth and the wavetable creation tool, don't need to worry about the transition artifacts and the whole process seems more intuitive and visual. If the synth comes with enough waveforms/tables to work with the possibilities are already endless.

[JunSev]

In my very humble opinion, wavetable import is overrated. I can't import any fkn wavetable into my Virus TI but the sounds I'm getting out of its factory wavetables are out of this world. I also have Rapid and Serum which can import wavetables and guess what? Most of the time I use their factory WTs

Just because you do something one way, doesn't mean others do it the same way.

I make my own wavetables... and some of the sounds I get from them are out of this world and would not be possible on your TI.

I see your point, sure if you have enough skills to make good sounding wavetables with smooth transitions which can be used in a muscial way not covered by the synth's stock content, you totally need WT import, but for me it's not a must-have. TBH, aside from messing with a WT editor in Dune 3 I never really tried to make my own wavetables, to me it seems that if you want to have something that actually sounds good and works well as a wavetable (has smooth and nice transitions) the process must be quite tedious.

I love wavetable synhs with lots of waveform shaping tools that can be controlled in realtime, like Serum's warp, Rapid's osc FX, Virus' grain and formant complex. Massive X also seems to have enough of such tools. Basically you can bend the waveform into a completely different shape, control this in realtime but you don't need to go back and forth between the synth and the wavetable creation tool, don't need to worry about the transition artifacts and the whole process seems more intuitive and visual. If the synth comes with enough waveforms/tables to work with the possibilities are already endless.

Most of the time when a synth has wavetable editor is always optional, is not like always has to be used. That's the thing, some people will appreciate that and others not, but to think that is unnecessary?... is in that moment when some people have to speak only for themselves.

Also how you say possibilities are endless if you can't import or create your own wavetables and you only have the possibility to use the stock wavetables? is that really a prove of possibilities are already endless., you sure about that?.

I'm sorry but you are wrong, I definitely don't like limitations and with only Predefined stock selection, all of that means is that has Big limitations = yeah powerful and versatile, but there is not Endless Possibilities.

What if I want to re resynthesize or import wav files from a oboe, a flute, some guitar, cello, violin, maybe another synth ext ext. Where is the possibilities are already endless you're talking about? No, is not there.

With all respect Recursive One.

[recursive one]

What if I want to re resynthesize or import wav files from a oboe, a flute, some guitar, cello, violin, maybe another synth ext ext. Where is the possibilities are already endless you're talking about? No, is not there.

There was a sort of contest on some other forum where people were trying to make acoustic piano sounds with Virus TI. While the results were not stunningly realistic, the sounds people were posting were interesting and musical and actually sounded like some sort of imaginary/futuristic piano.

So if you want a sound resembling an oboe, flute etc, from your synth you can try to recreate the desired sound characteristics using what the synth has to offer and the results may turn out to be more interesting and unique than if you had just imported some premade audio into the synth.

You may call this "limitation oriented mind", but I actually believe reasonable limitations make things done faster and on the other hand often promote more creative approaches.

Anyway, we have enough synths that import wavetables, and when one needs actually realistic sounds of acoustic intruments there are samplers for that. So I think there is a place for wavetable synths that aren't intended to work with user's content but offer many other cool and unique things instead

[perfumer]

Oh, well we all know that Native Instruments released Massive X six months too early. I agree with all your points, it’s definitely not finished, but I think when it is, it will be hot.

No, they released it 6 months late, half-baked.

A fairer comparison would be with Icarus 2.

Tone2 are not trying to do 'a better Massive'. They have their own direction, that's why their products are different, and that's OK.