No More Excuses...Please Help A Wannabe Songwriter

[wagtunes]

nope.
i dont get the questions business either tbh.

Look, if he wants to get to know me as a person (in case he wants to work with somebody he feels he can coexist with) I have no problem with that. But that there's right and wrong answers to personal questions, to me, is ridiculous.

Here is the one question, how I answered it, and then his response.

Question: Who Am I?

My Answer:

Who am I?

Okay, here goes. You may not like what you hear.

I'm a guy who is pissed off that life has to end because life is amazing. My experiences, my memories, my everything I've done in this life is like the most amazing novel ever written.

Yes, I believe in Jesus and the resurrection and everlasting life in heaven, but God put us here for a reason and it pisses me off to no end that I don't have more time to figure out what that reason is.

To that end, I am in a constant battle with time to do as much as I can in as little time as possible. It is like I am running a race. I am obsessed with making the most out of every minute of every day, which is why I can't sit around watching TV. My wife sits all day watching DVDs. I can't do that. To me, that's throwing my life away. I am always productive. Always.

I am passionate about everything I do, which is why I often go off the rails. I don't like nasty people and have little tolerance for them.

My life consists of

My wife
My daughter
My church
My music

In that order. Maybe that's part of the problem, that music isn't at the top of the list. It can't be. It will never be. That doesn't mean it isn't important to me. Every day of my life is filled with music.

Here is a thread I started a while ago.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=522861&p=7359820#p7359820

I have listened to all those songs since starting this thread and I don't plan on ever stopping.

Finally, yes, I want people to like me. Ironic considering how badly I act around here. But I so want to be liked. To that end, in the offline world, I bend over backwards for people, especially my wife, my daughter and my church. I am the associate pastor, treasurer and assistant music director of the church. I am also heading the outreach program to bring in more members.

My day is full. I am NEVER sitting around doing nothing. I only wish there were more hours in the day.

Anyway, that's who I am.

His Response:


Now on the other answer. Thanks but while you have told me some useful and good things (and some just like me - I never stop & bend over backward for people and get angry when they don't even try to reciprocate) this isn't answering that Q of what God put you here to do. Doh!

But there are clues: life is amazing, I don't have time to figure out what that reason is, constant battle, obsessed, always productive, maybe that's the problem, I bend over backward for people.

None of these are really who you are. They do show that you know you have a mission to give something to others. I believe that God lets us know what that is early on but we obscure it because we are silly duffers. We then have those other things happen as a result of fighting what we came for. Read this article and get the message around Gena: https://benedictroffmarsh.com/2019/03/1 ... e-writing/

I'll stop there. And then, he tries to sell me a book to read.

Okay, I'm done jumping through hoops. I have no idea what he wants from me.

Anyway, that's what's going on.

I don't doubt your productivity, but if you are productive in a way that doesn't serve your goals it's useless. Personally I don't feel you need a "Benedict". I believe you have reached a level where promoting your music is more important and "productive". Many artists become known by way of "mix tapes" or CD's. The HipHop artist "Logic" broke into the main stream with mixtapes. In Boston we have a vibrant music community. On any given day you will find a few artists selling their "albums" out of backpacks at "Downtown Crossing". Rock bands use Newbury Comics to promote themselves by giving away EP's, anyone can leave a stack at the door where they are available to customers. They also hang flyers for their shows. If you have clubs with live music you can offer bands a CD with a few of your songs to generate interest. They might record a song or play it live. Look for alternative ways to get your work out there. The paradigm of being discovered and given a contract is Jurrasic.

Karma, I understand what you're saying. The problem is, I am not a recording artist. I don't want to be a recording artist. For one thing, I'm not a great or even good singer. I don't play any instrument really well. I'm an okay mix engineer. I don't want to do any of those things. I want to write songs and get other people to perform them. Certainly that still has to be a thing in today's world. Not every performing artist writes music.

So my question, going back to the start of this whole thread, is what do I have to do to get people in the business, whether it be publishers, A&R reps, producers, agents, or whoever to hear my songs and like them enough to try to marry them to an artist they think it will be a good match to.

Is this no longer done? I can't believe it isn't.

[wagtunes]

Anyway, I just heard from Benedict. He's "cut me loose" as he so put it. He says it's about me finding my way and not having me jump through any hoops. Didn't know it was so important for me to "find my way" when his own words were I had a song he liked that he wanted to have a record of.

I guess he didn't like it all that much.

I hate bullshitters who are all talk and no action.

So supposedly I "burned this bridge" and we're done.

Well, I wasn't getting anywhere anyway so nothing lost.

So is there anybody else here who TRULY wants to and CAN help me?

I'm looking for a producer who likes my music and wants to take a chance hooking one of my songs up with an artist. If you're looking for some kind of zen out of me, it doesn't exist.

I'm a songwriter who wants his songs published and recorded by somebody else. Nothing more, nothing less.

Thank you.

[samsam]

The Truman Show.

[Benedict]

well other than to help you believe in yourself maybe, but not just to get a track produced

It was always A (and I said it several times publically & privately). Wags is the only one who decided that it was B (and kept hitting me over the head with it even after I said it was A). Yes, this is the role of a Record Producer: to be a counselor when the artist has gotten themselves stuck.

Wags is now trying to make it B publically; even after he said he didn't want to do the process anymore. His choice which I accepted several days ago with good grace. In the process, he made a nasty accusation that if he took time to read, he would have known was not the case. I ignored that at the time.

Seeing he has made this accusation public: the book (written by my partner) was offered FREE. To choose to edit that out of the conversation to present the inverse as fact is somewhere between sad and bearing false witness.

Perhaps Wags you can leave me out of your convoluted process from now on as I don't want to be dragged down into your world where everything is twisted to its opposite. The offer was fair, transparent & clear. You agreed then didn't want to. All on you, so leave me and mine out of it now as I don't need this from trying to help you for NO MONEY NOW OR EVER.

[Karma_tba]

nope.
i dont get the questions business either tbh.

Look, if he wants to get to know me as a person (in case he wants to work with somebody he feels he can coexist with) I have no problem with that. But that there's right and wrong answers to personal questions, to me, is ridiculous.

Here is the one question, how I answered it, and then his response.

Question: Who Am I?

My Answer:

Who am I?

Okay, here goes. You may not like what you hear.

I'm a guy who is pissed off that life has to end because life is amazing. My experiences, my memories, my everything I've done in this life is like the most amazing novel ever written.

Yes, I believe in Jesus and the resurrection and everlasting life in heaven, but God put us here for a reason and it pisses me off to no end that I don't have more time to figure out what that reason is.

To that end, I am in a constant battle with time to do as much as I can in as little time as possible. It is like I am running a race. I am obsessed with making the most out of every minute of every day, which is why I can't sit around watching TV. My wife sits all day watching DVDs. I can't do that. To me, that's throwing my life away. I am always productive. Always.

I am passionate about everything I do, which is why I often go off the rails. I don't like nasty people and have little tolerance for them.

My life consists of

My wife
My daughter
My church
My music

In that order. Maybe that's part of the problem, that music isn't at the top of the list. It can't be. It will never be. That doesn't mean it isn't important to me. Every day of my life is filled with music.

Here is a thread I started a while ago.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=522861&p=7359820#p7359820

I have listened to all those songs since starting this thread and I don't plan on ever stopping.

Finally, yes, I want people to like me. Ironic considering how badly I act around here. But I so want to be liked. To that end, in the offline world, I bend over backwards for people, especially my wife, my daughter and my church. I am the associate pastor, treasurer and assistant music director of the church. I am also heading the outreach program to bring in more members.

My day is full. I am NEVER sitting around doing nothing. I only wish there were more hours in the day.

Anyway, that's who I am.

His Response:


Now on the other answer. Thanks but while you have told me some useful and good things (and some just like me - I never stop & bend over backward for people and get angry when they don't even try to reciprocate) this isn't answering that Q of what God put you here to do. Doh!

But there are clues: life is amazing, I don't have time to figure out what that reason is, constant battle, obsessed, always productive, maybe that's the problem, I bend over backward for people.

None of these are really who you are. They do show that you know you have a mission to give something to others. I believe that God lets us know what that is early on but we obscure it because we are silly duffers. We then have those other things happen as a result of fighting what we came for. Read this article and get the message around Gena: https://benedictroffmarsh.com/2019/03/1 ... e-writing/

I'll stop there. And then, he tries to sell me a book to read.

Okay, I'm done jumping through hoops. I have no idea what he wants from me.

Anyway, that's what's going on.

I don't doubt your productivity, but if you are productive in a way that doesn't serve your goals it's useless. Personally I don't feel you need a "Benedict". I believe you have reached a level where promoting your music is more important and "productive". Many artists become known by way of "mix tapes" or CD's. The HipHop artist "Logic" broke into the main stream with mixtapes. In Boston we have a vibrant music community. On any given day you will find a few artists selling their "albums" out of backpacks at "Downtown Crossing". Rock bands use Newbury Comics to promote themselves by giving away EP's, anyone can leave a stack at the door where they are available to customers. They also hang flyers for their shows. If you have clubs with live music you can offer bands a CD with a few of your songs to generate interest. They might record a song or play it live. Look for alternative ways to get your work out there. The paradigm of being discovered and given a contract is Jurrasic.

Karma, I understand what you're saying. The problem is, I am not a recording artist. I don't want to be a recording artist. For one thing, I'm not a great or even good singer. I don't play any instrument really well. I'm an okay mix engineer. I don't want to do any of those things. I want to write songs and get other people to perform them. Certainly that still has to be a thing in today's world. Not every performing artist writes music.

So my question, going back to the start of this whole thread, is what do I have to do to get people in the business, whether it be publishers, A&R reps, producers, agents, or whoever to hear my songs and like them enough to try to marry them to an artist they think it will be a good match to.

Is this no longer done? I can't believe it isn't.

I have offered as much as I can....especially since I have not and will not pursue a career on any level or position in the music industry. My involvement is strictly for my own entertainment.

[wagtunes]

well other than to help you believe in yourself maybe, but not just to get a track produced

It was always A (and I said it several times publically & privately). Wags is the only one who decided that it was B (and kept hitting me over the head with it even after I said it was A). Yes, this is the role of a Record Producer: to be a counselor when the artist has gotten themselves stuck.

Wags is now trying to make it B publically; even after he said he didn't want to do the process anymore. His choice which I accepted several days ago with good grace. In the process, he made a nasty accusation that if he took time to read, he would have known was not the case. I ignored that at the time.

Seeing he has made this accusation public: the book (written by my partner) was offered FREE. To choose to edit that out of the conversation to present the inverse as fact is somewhere between sad and bearing false witness.

Perhaps Wags you can leave me out of your convoluted process from now on as I don't want to be dragged down into your world where everything is twisted to its opposite. The offer was fair, transparent & clear. You agreed then didn't want to. All on you, so leave me and mine out of it now as I don't need this from trying to help you for NO MONEY NOW OR EVER.

Your PM never said the book was free. You posted a link to it that appeared to be through a retailer.

I can repost the PM as sent so it is clear to see that you never said the book was free. In fact, when I responded to you, I said I'm not buying any books. You never ONCE responded back that the book was free.

So how about YOU tell the whole story.

So since it was never about B but only about A, then your statement "I love At The End Of The Day and would love to have that on a record" was a lie then.

Or do I have to post that statement by you as well?

This, folks, is why I hate this business. Everybody in it is a bullshitter.

[wagtunes]

nope.
i dont get the questions business either tbh.

Look, if he wants to get to know me as a person (in case he wants to work with somebody he feels he can coexist with) I have no problem with that. But that there's right and wrong answers to personal questions, to me, is ridiculous.

Here is the one question, how I answered it, and then his response.

Question: Who Am I?

My Answer:

Who am I?

Okay, here goes. You may not like what you hear.

I'm a guy who is pissed off that life has to end because life is amazing. My experiences, my memories, my everything I've done in this life is like the most amazing novel ever written.

Yes, I believe in Jesus and the resurrection and everlasting life in heaven, but God put us here for a reason and it pisses me off to no end that I don't have more time to figure out what that reason is.

To that end, I am in a constant battle with time to do as much as I can in as little time as possible. It is like I am running a race. I am obsessed with making the most out of every minute of every day, which is why I can't sit around watching TV. My wife sits all day watching DVDs. I can't do that. To me, that's throwing my life away. I am always productive. Always.

I am passionate about everything I do, which is why I often go off the rails. I don't like nasty people and have little tolerance for them.

My life consists of

My wife
My daughter
My church
My music

In that order. Maybe that's part of the problem, that music isn't at the top of the list. It can't be. It will never be. That doesn't mean it isn't important to me. Every day of my life is filled with music.

Here is a thread I started a while ago.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=522861&p=7359820#p7359820

I have listened to all those songs since starting this thread and I don't plan on ever stopping.

Finally, yes, I want people to like me. Ironic considering how badly I act around here. But I so want to be liked. To that end, in the offline world, I bend over backwards for people, especially my wife, my daughter and my church. I am the associate pastor, treasurer and assistant music director of the church. I am also heading the outreach program to bring in more members.

My day is full. I am NEVER sitting around doing nothing. I only wish there were more hours in the day.

Anyway, that's who I am.

His Response:


Now on the other answer. Thanks but while you have told me some useful and good things (and some just like me - I never stop & bend over backward for people and get angry when they don't even try to reciprocate) this isn't answering that Q of what God put you here to do. Doh!

But there are clues: life is amazing, I don't have time to figure out what that reason is, constant battle, obsessed, always productive, maybe that's the problem, I bend over backward for people.

None of these are really who you are. They do show that you know you have a mission to give something to others. I believe that God lets us know what that is early on but we obscure it because we are silly duffers. We then have those other things happen as a result of fighting what we came for. Read this article and get the message around Gena: https://benedictroffmarsh.com/2019/03/1 ... e-writing/

I'll stop there. And then, he tries to sell me a book to read.

Okay, I'm done jumping through hoops. I have no idea what he wants from me.

Anyway, that's what's going on.

I don't doubt your productivity, but if you are productive in a way that doesn't serve your goals it's useless. Personally I don't feel you need a "Benedict". I believe you have reached a level where promoting your music is more important and "productive". Many artists become known by way of "mix tapes" or CD's. The HipHop artist "Logic" broke into the main stream with mixtapes. In Boston we have a vibrant music community. On any given day you will find a few artists selling their "albums" out of backpacks at "Downtown Crossing". Rock bands use Newbury Comics to promote themselves by giving away EP's, anyone can leave a stack at the door where they are available to customers. They also hang flyers for their shows. If you have clubs with live music you can offer bands a CD with a few of your songs to generate interest. They might record a song or play it live. Look for alternative ways to get your work out there. The paradigm of being discovered and given a contract is Jurrasic.

Karma, I understand what you're saying. The problem is, I am not a recording artist. I don't want to be a recording artist. For one thing, I'm not a great or even good singer. I don't play any instrument really well. I'm an okay mix engineer. I don't want to do any of those things. I want to write songs and get other people to perform them. Certainly that still has to be a thing in today's world. Not every performing artist writes music.

So my question, going back to the start of this whole thread, is what do I have to do to get people in the business, whether it be publishers, A&R reps, producers, agents, or whoever to hear my songs and like them enough to try to marry them to an artist they think it will be a good match to.

Is this no longer done? I can't believe it isn't.

I have offered as much as I can....especially since I have not and will not pursue a career on any level or position in the music industry. My involvement is strictly for my own entertainment.

Well thanks anyway.

[wagtunes]

Here's the link to the book.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07L8 ... gKNsjaycYc

First, you'll notice that it's Amazon. That immediately leads me to believe this is something I have to pay for. Then, if you check it out, it says Kindle Price, $2.99.

The low price is irrelevant. Besides, I already made my decision before even checking out the link. I had no idea how much the book cost when I saw the link. I just knew I'd have to pay for it.

Benedict wants to paint me as the bad guy here but he lead me to believe by his statement that he loved the song and wanted to have it on a record that THAT'S what he was going to do.

He should have flatly come out and said "I am not going to get you a record deal." It would have saved us BOTH a lot of time.

I can post the entire history of our PMs and you will CLEARLY see how I would believe that he was going to help me in an actual physical sense.

I did learn something from this however. Next time somebody offers their "help" I will make sure I ask them EXACTLY how they plan to help me.

You'd think after 42 years I would have learned that by now and for that stupid assumption on my part, that's on me. Shame on me for not being more thorough before diving into this. I should be shot for being so gullible.

Never again.

At least the guy at Gearslutz told me EXACTLY what I'll be getting.

Hopefully, that will actually pan out.

[Benedict]

Wags this pains me but seeing you are attacking me publically I have little choice but to "nuke you from orbit". Remember even God didn't save the people of Sodom & Gomorrah after they had gone too far. And you have gone way too far.

Here is the last positive PM I sent to Wags in total:

Re: Artist Development
Sent: Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:27 am
by Benedict

wagtunes wrote:Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:13 am
I want to add this.

You asked me what I'm afraid of. It's not success. Trust me, it's not. I'm afraid of getting my hopes up for success. I'm afraid of somebody telling me "I'm going to help you achieve your dreams" and getting my hopes up only to be let down like the many times I've been let down until now.

I'd rather believe there's no way I can be successful than have hope and be let down.

Honest enough?

That's very interesting. You aren't afraid of success, but you are afraid of letting it happen in case it doesn't. You'll go so far as to burn every bridge (give or take) to avoid the possibility of failure. Even if it could have been a success!

This is a pretty core thing so thank you for sharing. Now I'm gonna be more annoying and ask you Why is this so? What set you to thinking this way? Acting with this flawed logic in which a guaranteed failure becomes preferable to even a possibility of doing what God put you here for?

Jane suggested her book on this point. You can read it is 15 mins but don't. You have a habit of leaping forward so you miss the really juicy bits. Take your time with everything. Savor the smell of the roses, the juice in the marrow of the words in the middle of the sentences. Got put every word where he did for a reason. If you have Kindle Unlimited then have at it, if not she'll get you a file copy. This is not about $, she wants to help.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07L8 ... gKNsjaycYc

-----

Now on the other answer. Thanks but while you have told me some useful and good things (and some just like me - I never stop & bend over backward for people and get angry when they don't even try to reciprocate) this isn't answering that Q of what God put you here to do. Doh!

But there are clues: life is amazing, I don't have time to figure out what that reason is, constant battle, obsessed, always productive, maybe that's the problem, I bend over backward for people.

None of these are really who you are. They do show that you know you have a mission to give something to others. I believe that God lets us know what that is early on but we obscure it because we are silly duffers. We then have those other things happen as a result of fighting what we came for. Read this article and get the message around Gena: https://benedictroffmarsh.com/2019/03/1 ... e-writing/

Now to give another evolution to the answer I gave there: I am here to help people find, tell & deliver their stories (perhaps mostly in music but I have helped an author get back on track too). When I was a kid I wanted to be a set designer for the theatre, this is before I even knew of the existence of Record Producers (the real ones not kids with Ableton). What I wanted to do was help the players deliver their story. Later, choosing Psych at uni was simply because everyone told me I had to do something sensible. Yet that is still about letting people tell their stories - get on with their proper lives. I then had to start making music because like you no one would touch me. I love making music but nowhere near as much as paving the way for others.

You, my friend, have a story of your own to tell and me hitting you with Who Am I? is making you get back in touch with that special thing that Steven is here to do the way that only Steven can. Perhaps the way that success looks like is not the same as you took yourself off-message into thinking it is?

Now I don't want an answer real fast on this. Take those days off. Let all this float to the back of your mind. Let Jesus whisper the answers in your sleep or as you are eating peas (loathsome things they are). The answers aren't new, they were there all along, you just got to looking in the wrong direction.

While I didn't use the word FREE it should be obvious seeing I make it clear that if you don't have Kindle Unlimited (which makes the book effectively free) then Jane will supply you a copy seeing it is not about the money. No reasonable person should then transform that into 'how dare you make me buy your book'.

Note in the second half I say this is tricky stuff so take some time. What did you do, ignored that too and came straight back at me with ire and accusations. You don't follow the help you asked for when it arrives (see the Thread Title by Wags).

This is Wags last PM to me just a few mins ago:

Re: Artist Development
Sent: Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:17 am
From: wagtunes
Recipient: Benedict

And you're just a another bullshitter like all the other bullshitters I've ever known. Even Vurt doesn't understand why I have to answer all these questions. You either like my songs or you don't. That's all that should matter.

If you think I'm going to sit here crying because you've cut me loose and I've lost this great opportunity, I've lost nothing. Only what I lost with every other bullshitter I've ever run into.

You're all the same.

Have a nice life.

I tried to help you in good faith with good material and transparent offers with no strings attached as a person trying to act like a good Christian (even tho I am an Athiest). You didn't want to go ahead, "Thank you for your time but I think we're done. I can't be what you want me to be." I let you go easy.

Re: Artist Development
Sent: Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:34 pm
by Benedict

I am sorry to hear that Wags

Truly. I was never putting you through hoops. It upsets me when people say that. But I understand.

Before I go, I'll say one last thing: what if God put us together as an opportunity? What if God saw me as a way to help you towards happiness and you the same for me? He knows what I will do when I hear your pain...

All the best

Then a few days later you started this in public to attempt to damage me for your life of pain. I am sorry for your pain but I will not let you cause me and mine (seeing you hurt Jane with your accusations after her kind offer) to have to engage in your pain too.

If you want to continue this thread go for it if you think you can benefit in any way but everything between you & me is settled and not for exhumation. Any more and this is outright Trolling and will get put past Hink personally seeing he already knows about this thread.

[debra1rlo]

No one gets record deals or gets in the business thru KVR. This is the place where you get into internet slappy fights over vague differences in vst plug-ins and computer operating systems. Seems common sense is none too common these days.

Fwiw, i'm in the business. And tho I'm not "killing it", I work with people who have produced and played on or produced songs/albums that were bona fide hits... If there were some magic bullet for success, it's not something I would even make the effort to reveal here, as I would be too busy swimming in piles of money ala Scrooge McDuck.

[wagtunes]

Here's my response to Benedict's article that he posted.

You know, here's a thought. Everybody busting my balls that maybe I haven't "done enough" maybe I just don't have enough talent and THAT'S why I haven't made it. Maybe as a songwriter I'm average at best. Maybe THAT'S the reason and not because of anything I've done or haven't done.

https://benedictroffmarsh.com/2019/03/0 ... o-with-it/

Interesting article. So, are you making me an offer? If yes, I accept. What do I have to do?

Here is his response to my question, “Are you making me an offer?”

Yes, you hopeless doofus. LOL. I already did remember

Why not work your way through that Artist Development Course linked a couple of pages back (or just find it in Tutorials)? Do the Homework. Write it out & all - like I was Uncle Satan, sorry I meant Mr Sony. Identifying & Addressing the Fears is what the whole course is about. Once we have that in-the-bag we will work on music

I'll let you choose if you want to do that privately or publically (right here in this Foum setting, or on the actual pages). I'd love to see you do it publically as it can help many people to see what happens in this sort of setting (the lesser discussed side of being a Manager/A&R/Producer person). It will be harder to end-run around the fears if it is public. I'll know either way

So my assumption from all this was that I do his Artist Development Course and when I'm done with it, he helps me with his offer, which I assumed was helping me get my song recorded by somebody.

Any REASONABLE person would assume the same.

[wagtunes]

I just needed to make that perfectly clear to everybody what my thought process was and what lead me to that conclusion. If I misunderstood, anybody else would as well.

Benedict, I never came to you. YOU came to me. Hell, you even had to hit me over the head and call me a dufus that you were making me an offer.

I will NOT take the blame for this fiasco.

[debra1rlo]

i see a vague offer to help sell your songs in some as yet unnamed way, nothing more. Maybe you want to believe more out of impatience/frustration.

[Michael L]

The Truman Show

[wagtunes]

i see a vague offer to help sell your songs in some as yet unnamed way, nothing more. Maybe you want to believe more out of impatience/frustration.

Like I said in an earlier post, that's on me. I should have flat out asked, "Exactly WHAT are you offering me?" And if the answer was vague or not something I was interested in doing, I would have simply replied, "Thanks, but I'm not interested."

Would have saved us BOTH a lot of time and all this bad blood between us.