No More Excuses...Please Help A Wannabe Songwriter

[wagtunes]

...

Of course those who have heard some of the music I've posted here are more than welcome to listen to some library tracks and let me know if they think I can measure up.

I have and that's why I think you can do it. There are some super-talents out there and people with the resources to do full-blown studio recordings, but for the most part I think they are just people who've chosen to put their effort into this as opposed to conquering EDM, etc.

To me, it's a more equitable part of the music industry in that, since you're behind-the-scenes (so to speak), age, etc. does not matter. And you're not trying to top Ed Sheeran, just do work of the caliber of your peers. You're doing that on KVR, so why not production music?

Exactly. Why not?

It's going to feel weird not writing pop songs anymore.

[Russell Grand]

I can't be the only one here that predicted that things with Benedict would go down exactly how they did. In my short time here on KVR, I've seen countless threads in which Wagtunes burns bridges with people that are only trying to help him. Honestly it's just plain sad... I still haven't figured out whether the dude does these things knowing full well what he's doing, or if there is some subconscious part of his brain that sabotages his every word and action without him realizing what's actually happening... Either way, it's sad to watch. Amusing in some ways, but ultimately just sad...

[wagtunes]

I can't be the only one here that predicted that things with Benedict would go down exactly how they did. In my short time here on KVR, I've seen countless threads in which Wagtunes burns bridges with people that are only trying to help him. Honestly it's just plain sad... I still haven't figured out whether the dude does these things knowing full well what he's doing, or if there is some subconscious part of his brain that sabotages his every word and action without him realizing what's actually happening... Either way, it's sad to watch. Amusing in some ways, but ultimately just sad...

Russell, you're so behind on what's gone down in this thread since that it's almost comical to read your post. Shame you have to dwell on the negative instead of seeing the amazing transformation that has come out of all this.

Oh well, that's life.

[Russell Grand]

In this case, no I'm not, Wag. For one thing, this was only a couple days ago. And it's a recurring theme. So I'm going to respectfully disagree with you. I'm still greatly concerned, dude; I wish you were able to avoid self-sabotage but that won't happen until you see and acknowledge it.

With that said, since you've chosen to move on, I'll kindly do the same. Just know that there are some of us here who care.

[andrelafosse]

I've written for a few libraries over the last three years. This is the main one I've worked with:

http://www.velvetgreenmusic.com/artist/andre-lafosse/

First of all, you CAN, and SHOULD, have your stuff available for public listening, at least initially. No one is going to refuse to license a track because it's already been on Soundcloud, or there's a post about it on a message board. It's also been my experience that libraries are at least as likely to have people create unique tracks specifically for them, rather than license pre-existing ones. All of the library gigs I've gotten were the result of me reaching out to them, and referring them to my Soundcloud page so that they could hear what I do.

If and when a library actually takes a track of yours, then they will probably have their own approach in terms of how they make it public. (The Velvet Green link above has a Soundcloud playlist of the stuff I've done for them, and they also have a YouTube channel where their releases can be heard.) For the beginning, though: absolutely have your stuff ready to hear.

Along those lines: be open to criticism and critiques. There's a lot of subtleties to this kind of work, and tracks that might initially sound like there's nothing to them can actually be constructed to conform to very specific criteria and parameters. A lot of people who come to library music from "regular" composition and production struggle with this - I certainly did at first, and I still have a lot to learn about it.

Seek out the opinions of people who work in this field, because a lot of people (especially musicians) will evaluate a piece based on the extent to which it holds their interest. Ironically, this is NOT what most media composition is about. A track that works as a stand-alone listening experience may not function well as media music, and vice versa.

https://musiclibraryreport.com/ is a good resource, and has a forum section for posting original material. https://vi-control.net/community/ is another.

[wagtunes]

I've written for a few libraries over the last three years. This is the main one I've worked with:

http://www.velvetgreenmusic.com/artist/andre-lafosse/

First of all, you CAN, and SHOULD, have your stuff available for public listening, at least initially. No one is going to refuse to license a track because it's already been on Soundcloud, or there's a post about it on a message board. It's also been my experience that libraries are at least as likely to have people create unique tracks specifically for them, rather than license pre-existing ones. All of the library gigs I've gotten were the result of me reaching out to them, and referring them to my Soundcloud page so that they could hear what I do.

If and when a library actually takes a track of yours, then they will probably have their own approach in terms of how they make it public. (The Velvet Green link above has a Soundcloud playlist of the stuff I've done for them, and they also have a YouTube channel where their releases can be heard.) For the beginning, though: absolutely have your stuff ready to hear.

Along those lines: be open to criticism and critiques. There's a lot of subtleties to this kind of work, and tracks that might initially sound like there's nothing to them can actually be constructed to conform to very specific criteria and parameters. A lot of people who come to library music from "regular" composition and production struggle with this - I certainly did at first, and I still have a lot to learn about it.

Seek out the opinions of people who work in this field, because a lot of people (especially musicians) will evaluate a piece based on the extent to which it holds their interest. Ironically, this is NOT what most media composition is about. A track that works as a stand-alone listening experience may not function well as media music, and vice versa.

https://musiclibraryreport.com/ is a good resource, and has a forum section for posting original material. https://vi-control.net/community/ is another.

See, when I tried this a while ago through Audio Jungle (way before I had any business even trying as my skills were horrible) I was told that the track, if accepted, could not appear anywhere else. Is that no longer the case? I just don't want to create a track for XYZ site, post it here and/or Soundcloud for critique and end up having them refuse to take it because it's already out in the public.

[JoeCat]

OT, but I need to get this out there and I'm following this thread while doing some C++ dev for work and watching a stupid Netflix SF series ("Another Life") - go Friday Nights! - and dude is trying to communicate with some alien artifact by playing Mozart, and says "drop the frequency down to 1 Hz per second".

<- did this so hard I hurt my head.

Carry on...

[andrelafosse]

See, when I tried this a while ago through Audio Jungle (way before I had any business even trying as my skills were horrible) I was told that the track, if accepted, could not appear anywhere else. Is that no longer the case?

No, that's normal. That's IF a track is accepted by a library. If you choose to make something available through them, you're effectively signing with them, and they don't want anyone else to be able to license that particular track once you've done that.

But nobody is going to know, or care, if you've posted that track online before signing with them. And, as I say, it's much more likely that they'll ask you to cook up something new from scratch.

I just don't want to create a track for XYZ site, post it here and/or Soundcloud for critique and end up having them refuse to take it because it's already out in the public.

I think you have it backwards, honestly. You should solicit critiques and feedback first and foremost, to develop facility with this stuff, before worrying about getting a gig. That's what I did (and still do!). That's how anybody learns a new craft, as you know.

Any library is going to have someone who decides if a track is good enough for them to take on. THOSE are the opinions you need to worry about. In that situation, there's no need to solicit feedback on Soundcloud/KVR/wherever. What matters is if the people at the library itself approve it. And sometimes it'll take a few revisions on an initial idea, based on the critique from the library, before you've got something they're happy with.

[wagtunes]

See, when I tried this a while ago through Audio Jungle (way before I had any business even trying as my skills were horrible) I was told that the track, if accepted, could not appear anywhere else. Is that no longer the case?

No, that's normal. That's IF a track is accepted by a library. If you choose to make something available through them, you're effectively signing with them, and they don't want anyone else to be able to license that particular track once you've done that.

But nobody is going to know, or care, if you've posted that track online before signing with them. And, as I say, it's much more likely that they'll ask you to cook up something new from scratch.

I just don't want to create a track for XYZ site, post it here and/or Soundcloud for critique and end up having them refuse to take it because it's already out in the public.

I think you have it backwards, honestly. You should solicit critiques and feedback first and foremost, to develop facility with this stuff, before worrying about getting a gig. That's what I did (and still do!). That's how anybody learns a new craft, as you know.

Any library is going to have someone who decides if a track is good enough for them to take on. THOSE are the opinions you need to worry about. In that situation, there's no need to solicit feedback on Soundcloud/KVR/wherever. What matters is if the people at the library itself approve it. And sometimes it'll take a few revisions on an initial idea, based on the critique from the library, before you've got something they're happy with.

Okay, sounds like Audio Jungle works a little differently from what you're describing. With them, you submit your track. They either approve it and add it to their site or they don't. And you can then either work on it to try to improve it or scratch it and work on something else.

The problem with Audio Jungle, and I don't know if every site is like this, is that they don't tell you why they didn't like your track. They just reject it and you're left wondering, was it the composition, was it the mix? There is no way to know because they won't tell you.

Are all these sites like that?

[andrelafosse]

Thinking of libraries as "sites" is the wrong way to go about it, in my opinion. Sites like Audio Jungle and Pond 5 fill that kind of role in a broad, automated kind of sense. But a "real" library is going to have real people you're in communication with, who are dealing with artists and clients alike.

Audio Jungle is kind of like Bandcamp or CD Baby, if those sites had the power to approve or veto submissions. A library is like a record label - artists are coordinating with people at the label to figure out how to deliver the best product.

[BertKoor]

Bottpm of page 31, posted only 14 hours ago.
You might have missed it...

Who are you?

A deceptively simple question, so hard to answer. There's no right or wrong answer.

I am an iceberg. You are an iceberg too. All other people can see is the tip. Those are our actions, easy to perceive. Under water are our true deeper motivations. Often we're not even aware of these ourselves.

The answer you gave was fine, but you have to dig deeper, much deeper, to get a better insight in how you act and why, and why certain things you do are succesful or fail.

There are patterns in our behaviour. Either they work for you or against you.

Just some posts ago you received feedback about your behaviour as observed by us. And how did you react? Ironically it was about how you react to feedback / criticism.

Now someone else states that handling criticism is an important aspect of the work.

How come, if we reach out a hand to you to offer help, you see it as a hand that slaps you in the face?
How come they say you burn bridges all the time?

We see just the tip of the iceberg. To get useful answers and get improvements, you need to work on it and dig deeper.

[Benedict]

OH yes...and you (Wags) may have avoided a load of shit if you had trusted my bullshit alarm (finely tuned to Gold Coast bullshit)

If you don't have the balls to talk to me directly, don't talk to, or about me, at all you rock spider. I may have considered a proper pissing contest but you appear to have nothing to show for yourself so just piss the f**k back under a rock and leave the adults alone like you normally do.

Sheesh. This isn't the first time you have taken potshots at me from cover you little hack turd. Go back to your VB, watch cricket, and stay the f**k away from me. You just look like a typical Aussie shooter of tall poppies because you can't do f**k all with your life but attack people who try to better themselves. If you intend to even try responding to me don't do so without first showing something, anything, that you have ever done (except be a rock spider that is). Albums, films, anything... Be a real man or f**k off.

If you need to be upset then call a Mod but firstly explain to them why you take potshots at me when I have not even spoken to you in this thread or most of the others where you have sniped from a safe distance.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

OH yes...and you (Wags) may have avoided a load of shit if you had trusted my bullshit alarm (finely tuned to Gold Coast bullshit)

If you don't have the balls to talk to me directly, don't talk to, or about me, at all you rock spider. I may have considered a proper pissing contest but you appear to have nothing to show for yourself so just piss the f**k back under a rock and leave the adults alone like you normally do.

Sheesh. This isn't the first time you have taken potshots at me from cover you little hack turd. Go back to your VB, watch cricket, and stay the f**k away from me. You just look like a typical Aussie shooter of tall poppies because you can't do f**k all with your life but attack people who try to better themselves. If you intend to even try responding to me don't do so without first showing something, anything, that you have ever done (except be a rock spider that is). Albums, films, anything... Be a real man or f**k off.

If you need to be upset then call a Mod but firstly explain to them why you take potshots at me when I have not even spoken to you in this thread or most of the others where you have sniped from a safe distance.

Perhaps he was inferring that you are not the best person to be taking life and character-building advice from. I think you just proved him right

[Benedict]

OH yes...and you (Wags) may have avoided a load of shit if you had trusted my bullshit alarm (finely tuned to Gold Coast bullshit)

If you don't have the balls to talk to me directly, don't talk to, or about me, at all you rock spider. I may have considered a proper pissing contest but you appear to have nothing to show for yourself so just piss the f**k back under a rock and leave the adults alone like you normally do.

Sheesh. This isn't the first time you have taken potshots at me from cover you little hack turd. Go back to your VB, watch cricket, and stay the f**k away from me. You just look like a typical Aussie shooter of tall poppies because you can't do f**k all with your life but attack people who try to better themselves. If you intend to even try responding to me don't do so without first showing something, anything, that you have ever done (except be a rock spider that is). Albums, films, anything... Be a real man or f**k off.

If you need to be upset then call a Mod but firstly explain to them why you take potshots at me when I have not even spoken to you in this thread or most of the others where you have sniped from a safe distance.

Perhaps he was inferring that you are not the best person to be taking life and character-building advice from. I think you just proved him right

El-bo, if he can't talk to me directly and has to take pot shots from behind the bushes then he deserves little to nothing in the way of respect. From me or anyone.

I am deliberately reacting LARGE because I am tired of him and his like who do this kind of stuff but when it comes to it won't have a direct conversation to air their (supposedly valid) point of view and also have absolutely nothing to show for themselves to back having this right to opine.

Perhaps I prove that I am somebody because I will defend myself like a proper man and I build my public persona on the back of the many things I have done & display with pride (whether you like em personally or not is no matter). I am not a massive fan of Russel Brand's ideas but I respect the guy as he does real things and is trying to make a better world. I bet you can't walk up to him and expect to get more than 1-2 free shots before he rips you the new one you deserve for not being a gentleman.

Hold whatever personal opinion you like about me but if you defend an aggressor who likes to sucker punch people then maybe there is a whole other thing to consider. How is it that people like this can do this with everyone leaving it unchallenged? Is that a great mark of character?

[Benedict]

double post