No More Excuses...Please Help A Wannabe Songwriter

[wagtunes]

Would you like a second opinion?

No, not really. But thanks.

[Aloysius]

OK. Have a nice day.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

i think you need therapy. i’m a therapist. i have been in therapy for many years. if you want to achieve your goals and you’re having these kinds of conflicts within and without it would be an excellent first step. set yourself up for success. i feel that you’ve been calling out for a long long while for this kind of help. answer the call.

Thank you. I don't need therapy. Have a nice day.

Yeah you do! Of course, rather ironically, the fact that you receive the suggestion as an affront to your ego is a clear sign that you would indeed be 'well-served' by therapy.

In my 47 years on this planet, I've not met anyone who wouldn't have benefitted from therapy, either as a way of dealing with past, known (or subconsciously-held) trauma, or to learn tools and mechanisms by which future issues could best be dealt with. There's a reason why our esteemed friend above is both a therapist and in therapy.

Certainly, the process of going through therapy can foster a great deal of humility and a better sense of self-awareness, which is tragic when you consider that to even get to the stage of making the appointment you need a good dose of humility and self-awareness. Either way, it's a hero's journey!

You think you've changed, but you seem imo to still be playing out the same exact patterns, right here, even today. Who you are, and how you act, is a product of all your life experiences up until now. That normally takes some unravelling. But maybe you're right. Maybe all that has changed by just whistling 'Hi-Ho, Hi-Ho!', and wishing everyone a "Nice day!"

Good for you

[wagtunes]

i think you need therapy. i’m a therapist. i have been in therapy for many years. if you want to achieve your goals and you’re having these kinds of conflicts within and without it would be an excellent first step. set yourself up for success. i feel that you’ve been calling out for a long long while for this kind of help. answer the call.

Thank you. I don't need therapy. Have a nice day.

Yeah you do! Of course, rather ironically, the fact that you receive the suggestion as an affront to your ego is a clear sign that you would indeed be 'well-served' by therapy.

In my 47 years on this planet, I've not met anyone who wouldn't have benefitted from therapy, either as a way of dealing with past, known (or subconsciously-held) trauma, or to learn tools and mechanisms by which future issues could best be dealt with. There's a reason why our esteemed friend above is both a therapist and in therapy.

Certainly, the process of going through therapy can foster a great deal of humility and a better sense of self-awareness, which is tragic when you consider that to even get to the stage of making the appointment you need a good dose of humility and self-awareness. Either way, it's a hero's journey!

You think you've changed, but you seem imo to still be playing out the same exact patterns, right here, even today. Who you are, and how you act, is a product of all your life experiences up until now. That normally takes some unravelling. But maybe you're right. Maybe all that has changed by just whistling 'Hi-Ho, Hi-Ho!', and wishing everyone a "Nice day!"

Good for you

el-bo, you and everybody else is going to have to get your entertainment elsewhere. I'm not allowing myself to get sucked into the negativity here anymore. I have a definitive goal in my life and I'm focusing on that goal and nothing else. If people want to continue to tell me how I haven't changed, need therapy, or whatever, they're going to have to do it without my participation.

I hope you can find somebody else around this forum to do this dance with.

Me? I've left the dance floor.

Have a nice day and have a nice life.

[Unaspected]

i think you need therapy. i’m a therapist. i have been in therapy for many years. if you want to achieve your goals and you’re having these kinds of conflicts within and without it would be an excellent first step. set yourself up for success. i feel that you’ve been calling out for a long long while for this kind of help. answer the call.

Thank you. I don't need therapy. Have a nice day.

Yeah you do! Of course, rather ironically, the fact that you receive the suggestion as an affront to your ego is a clear sign that you would indeed be 'well-served' by therapy.

In my 47 years on this planet, I've not met anyone who wouldn't have benefitted from therapy, either as a way of dealing with past, known (or subconsciously-held) trauma, or to learn tools and mechanisms by which future issues could best be dealt with. There's a reason why our esteemed friend above is both a therapist and in therapy.

Certainly, the process of going through therapy can foster a great deal of humility and a better sense of self-awareness, which is tragic when you consider that to even get to the stage of making the appointment you need a good dose of humility and self-awareness. Either way, it's a hero's journey!

You think you've changed, but you seem imo to still be playing out the same exact patterns, right here, even today. Who you are, and how you act, is a product of all your life experiences up until now. That normally takes some unravelling. But maybe you're right. Maybe all that has changed by just whistling 'Hi-Ho, Hi-Ho!', and wishing everyone a "Nice day!"

Good for you

I definitely agree that most people can benefit from therapy but not everyone is ready for it. Timing is important.

Wags seems to be making positive steps. Brave steps, in going to his school reunion. That's a good thing.

Sure, he'll experience set-backs and will want to default to old behaviour when they inevitably happen. That's when he'll be tested. But that's no different to someone quitting smoking or any kind of habitual behaviour. And he does seem to have a good attitude with which to approach this task - a great contrast to how the thread started out.

Anyway. It's a little odd, discussing this in public, when Wags suggested he doesn't see value in personal therapy right now.

[wagtunes]

i think you need therapy. i’m a therapist. i have been in therapy for many years. if you want to achieve your goals and you’re having these kinds of conflicts within and without it would be an excellent first step. set yourself up for success. i feel that you’ve been calling out for a long long while for this kind of help. answer the call.

Thank you. I don't need therapy. Have a nice day.

Yeah you do! Of course, rather ironically, the fact that you receive the suggestion as an affront to your ego is a clear sign that you would indeed be 'well-served' by therapy.

In my 47 years on this planet, I've not met anyone who wouldn't have benefitted from therapy, either as a way of dealing with past, known (or subconsciously-held) trauma, or to learn tools and mechanisms by which future issues could best be dealt with. There's a reason why our esteemed friend above is both a therapist and in therapy.

Certainly, the process of going through therapy can foster a great deal of humility and a better sense of self-awareness, which is tragic when you consider that to even get to the stage of making the appointment you need a good dose of humility and self-awareness. Either way, it's a hero's journey!

You think you've changed, but you seem imo to still be playing out the same exact patterns, right here, even today. Who you are, and how you act, is a product of all your life experiences up until now. That normally takes some unravelling. But maybe you're right. Maybe all that has changed by just whistling 'Hi-Ho, Hi-Ho!', and wishing everyone a "Nice day!"

Good for you

I definitely agree that most people can benefit from therapy but not everyone is ready for it. Timing is important.

Wags seems to be making positive steps. Brave steps, in going to his school reunion. That's a good thing.

Sure, he'll experience set-backs and will want to default to old behaviour when they inevitably happen. That's when he'll be tested. But that's no different to someone quitting smoking or any kind of habitual behaviour. And he does seem to have a good attitude with which to approach this task - a great contrast to how the thread started out.

Anyway. It's a little odd, discussing this in public, when Wags suggested he doesn't see value in personal therapy right now.

Hey, I'll talk about anything. I don't care what it is. I have nothing to hide. But I just won't allow myself get caught up in the usual "You have problems and you need help because you're always fighting with people and on and on and on" stuff. I'm done with it. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. Today was such a major step in my life you can't even begin to imagine. Grammar school was hell. Today was one of the most enjoyable days of my life seeing these people. I can't even believe I'm saying that, but it's true.

So let people think whatever they want.

It's of no concern to me.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

i think you need therapy. i’m a therapist. i have been in therapy for many years. if you want to achieve your goals and you’re having these kinds of conflicts within and without it would be an excellent first step. set yourself up for success. i feel that you’ve been calling out for a long long while for this kind of help. answer the call.

Thank you. I don't need therapy. Have a nice day.

Yeah you do! Of course, rather ironically, the fact that you receive the suggestion as an affront to your ego is a clear sign that you would indeed be 'well-served' by therapy.

In my 47 years on this planet, I've not met anyone who wouldn't have benefitted from therapy, either as a way of dealing with past, known (or subconsciously-held) trauma, or to learn tools and mechanisms by which future issues could best be dealt with. There's a reason why our esteemed friend above is both a therapist and in therapy.

Certainly, the process of going through therapy can foster a great deal of humility and a better sense of self-awareness, which is tragic when you consider that to even get to the stage of making the appointment you need a good dose of humility and self-awareness. Either way, it's a hero's journey!

You think you've changed, but you seem imo to still be playing out the same exact patterns, right here, even today. Who you are, and how you act, is a product of all your life experiences up until now. That normally takes some unravelling. But maybe you're right. Maybe all that has changed by just whistling 'Hi-Ho, Hi-Ho!', and wishing everyone a "Nice day!"

Good for you

el-bo, you and everybody else is going to have to get your entertainment elsewhere. I'm not allowing myself to get sucked into the negativity here anymore. I have a definitive goal in my life and I'm focusing on that goal and nothing else. If people want to continue to tell me how I haven't changed, need therapy, or whatever, they're going to have to do it without my participation.

I hope you can find somebody else around this forum to do this dance with.

Me? I've left the dance floor.

Have a nice day and have a nice life.

"For better hallway vision"...

The antidote:



The soothing balm:

[jancivil]

i think you need therapy. i’m a therapist. i have been in therapy for many years. if you want to achieve your goals and you’re having these kinds of conflicts within and without it would be an excellent first step. set yourself up for success. i feel that you’ve been calling out for a long long while for this kind of help. answer the call.

This is such bullshit. I'm really hard-restraining myself with some of the shit since this, but man this is obnoxious.
Physician, heal thyself?
Quelle surprise.
First of all, this kind of thing is not appropriate, focusing on a person to this extent and judging them, but this is the limit, internet psychoanalysis. I only saw this shit in wags' quote, I have you on ignore already for good reason. Astonishing. But I don't want to be a hypocrite and go into it, just this is not cool.

Why not post your business card too? What a dick move.

[jancivil]

I will say this, I lived with a therapist for a little while who had a terrific love and hate for me, and he is the biggest dick I ever knew, just a massive failure of self-awareness and projection. I helped him prepare for his license exam. Fascinating. Brilliant intellectually, a big hot mess emotionally and the model for projecting his psychology onto others.
Fortunately he chose social work, where he has to do something to get people out of actual trouble.

Therapy is a pseudo-science and in itself should be gauged with great skepticism IME. It might work for some people if they get someone who is simpatico and listens, OTOH it could well f**k you up worse, because of the tendency, as we see here, a true believer who's always in therapy. There is no end. The big idea in 'therapy' is to confront your base trauma. This seems perilous and I was never convinced of the healing properties of supposed catharsis anyway. Dwell in your trauma. Does everybody have a base trauma? What if someone pushes that, like some push false memories?
But, think hard: does one trust someone to go in and do this kind of thing? To never bring THEIR baggage into it. Come on.

What if your history and your f**ked-upness is a great part of your artistry? No, get in there and erase your soul.

But, again, this is not a science. This is people pretending to know stuff from some bullet points and premises, and one school violently disagrees with the other school, like anything else speculative.

[jancivil]

Wags has been pretty open here and we have the usual suspects just bashing him as a person, while preaching 'humility' and 'self-awareness'.

I need to take longer breaks from this environment, this is sick, it's not good for me

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Wags has been pretty open here and we have the usual suspects just bashing him as a person, while preaching 'humility' and 'self-awareness'.

I need to take longer breaks from this environment, this is sick, it's not good for me

I'm not bashing him as a person

[Noumena]

*shrug* I help people and have been helped by people. it's not rocket science to listen to someone and help them to help themselves... but it can make every bit of difference. there are certainly bad therapists, and bad therapists as partners are a special hell, I happen to know. don't see bad therapists, just like you don't go back to a bad doctor.

but therapy is about resolving internal conflicts that can really hold you back from achieving your goals, recovering from the effects of living with those conflicts and building a set of tools to get where you want to be. it's saved my life more than once, which is why I entered the profession and it is why I occasionally suggest that someone might gain something from it -- in the off hand chance that hearing someone talk about it might put the idea out there.

I don't recognize what you're identifying as the process of therapy at all. It sounds like you had a very bad experience and I'm sorry for that. For most people therapy is very successful, is self-directed, and is a process where they help themselves -- not a process where they are acted upon, or have their soul erased.

in my mind encouraging someone that is trying to make a big change in their life after 40 years of frustration to seek assistance in therapy is like encouraging someone who is going to drive across the country to get AAA. if you have a different association because of your personal history that makes sense, but attaching a stigma to therapy in general and pathologizing people that are in it (some of whom really need it) isn't really very nice.

[Noumena]

and Wags's answer was perfectly on point. i wanted to clarify that I wasn't responding to his reply to try to change his mind, just to the above post.

[ariston]

I don't recognize what you're identifying as the process of therapy at all. It sounds like you had a very bad experience and I'm sorry for that. For most people therapy is very successful, is self-directed, and is a process where they help themselves -- not a process where they are acted upon, or have their soul erased.

Jan is right in a lot of ways here. It's sad that psychology has been desperately trying to be a science the past few decades, but that was for the sake of legitimacy. Our modern world wants "proof" for everything, so tens of thousands of ill-conceived and poorly executed "scientific studies" are published year after year. Don't get me started on how big pharma has been dictating and informing this so-called "research". Psychiatry only survived this far because folks still dream the dream of taking that one pill that will change their lives forever. Skepticism is a good way to approach all things psychological. And medical, come to think of it.
That said, you shouldn't let your skepticism keep you from what can be a very beneficial and sometimes (rarely) even life-changing experience. Just handle with care.

I feel a bit humbled and embarrassed by what she said here. She's right; the fact that Wags continues to hang his balls up in the air time and again doesn't mean we have the right to kick them. Point taken.

[ariston]

More on topic: not a good time to be a songwriter. As I am slowly settling into old-fart-mode, I feel I have the right to moan about the times. Pop music used to be so diverse, just look at any chart in the 80s. Sure, you had your Stock Aitken Watermans, and your Frank Farians, and Trevor Horns.... but there were so many styles, some really far-out stuff, songs that wouldn't stand a chance in today's market. You had individualism, and personal expression. Nowadays, who really cares if it's generic-singer-with-Max-Martin-material #234 or #4395? Pop has never sucked so badly.

On the plus side, there's more reliance on live music, and so many good bands have developed in the shadows because they haven't been spoiled by the big Warner Brothers paycheck. I think a songwriter who has any artistic ambition needs to either be a musician, or find someone and stick with them for a fairly long time, developing and growing and maybe garnering more attention as a result.