"Dark Horse" copyright infringement ruling

[wagtunes]

IMO, there shouldn't have been a lawsuit, but that's what this business has come to.

So you have no sympathies towards the rapper Flame? Have you tried to look at it from his angle?

It isn't a question of sympathy. It's a question of the law and its interpretation. If this song truly warranted being sued for plagiarism, and obviously you feel it does, then I've got a whole crap ton of songs from the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s when I was really into music that are just ripe for the picking for any lawyer who wants to get rich.

Why don't we start with every 16 bar blues song ever written because hell, they all sound the same from beginning to end. And I'm not talking just 7 notes.

Sorry, but going by what has passed for "original material" before artists started getting shit faced greedy, there is no way this thing should have ever gone to court, let alone actually side with the plaintiff.

[SAW75]

Why wouldn't you expect the community of a music production forum to know more about the inner workings of music than the general public?

I would expect that but I don't see it in this case. I see a bunch of musicians ignoring something obvious and making a ton of excuses.

[SAW75]

IMO, there shouldn't have been a lawsuit, but that's what this business has come to.

So you have no sympathies towards the rapper Flame? Have you tried to look at it from his angle?

It isn't a question of sympathy. It's a question of the law and its interpretation. If this song truly warranted being sued for plagiarism, and obviously you feel it does, then I've got a whole crap ton of songs from the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s when I was really into music that are just ripe for the picking for any lawyer who wants to get rich.

Why don't we start with every 16 bar blues song ever written because hell, they all sound the same from beginning to end. And I'm not talking just 7 notes.

Sorry, but going by what has passed for "original material" before artists started getting shit faced greedy, there is no way this thing should have ever gone to court, let alone actually side with the plaintiff.

I meant sympathy for his legal point of view... I guess not though.

I think each genre has different elements that become signature to a song.

I know my opinion is not popular but I really have to wonder about this case. And that line, the little vocal intro at about the 10 second mark in both songs... why is that nearly identical? That's what I started to discuss before whyterabbit derailed the thread. That's the part that seems like a bit of a mock to me. But I could be wrong. Maybe that is a popular rap phrase...Does anyone else have an opinion on that? It's strange to me.

[wagtunes]

IMO, there shouldn't have been a lawsuit, but that's what this business has come to.

So you have no sympathies towards the rapper Flame? Have you tried to look at it from his angle?

It isn't a question of sympathy. It's a question of the law and its interpretation. If this song truly warranted being sued for plagiarism, and obviously you feel it does, then I've got a whole crap ton of songs from the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s when I was really into music that are just ripe for the picking for any lawyer who wants to get rich.

Why don't we start with every 16 bar blues song ever written because hell, they all sound the same from beginning to end. And I'm not talking just 7 notes.

Sorry, but going by what has passed for "original material" before artists started getting shit faced greedy, there is no way this thing should have ever gone to court, let alone actually side with the plaintiff.

I meant sympathy for his legal point of view... I guess not though.

I think each genre has different elements that become signature to a song.

I know my opinion is not popular but I really have to wonder about this case. And that line, the little vocal intro... why is that nearly identical? That's what I started to discuss before whyterabbit derailed the thread. Does anyone else have an opinion on that? It's strange to me.

It's hard to have sympathy for a legal point of view that has no basis in legality. I mean if you use the same criteria for this lawsuit (a 7 note riff and nothing else in common) and apply it to at least 10s of thousands of songs prior to this, the whole industry would be one ongoing lawsuit.

Ultimately, we've set a precedent here. So where do we draw the line? Is 6 notes fair game? 5? 4?

As derivative as my music is, I'd have to be suicidal to want to have anything to do with this business if this is what it's come to.

So no, I have zero sympathy for this guy, and I'm a Christian.

[SAW75]

(a 7 note riff and nothing else in common)

I actually just pointed out another strange commonality at the 10 second mark of each song.

[wagtunes]

(a 7 note riff and nothing else in common)

I actually just pointed out another strange commonality at the 10 second mark of each song.

Let me go listen, yet again.

[wagtunes]

Okay, I listened. The travesty of this lawsuit is even more apparent to me now than it was before because I REALLY listened.

So let's go over the offending sections/parts, whatever.

1. The riff itself. In Dark Horse, the riff is 8th notes as a run. In Joyful Noise, they sound like dotted 8th notes played staccato. So the rhythms are not the same. Musically, the notes in Dark Horse are played straight. In Joyful Noise, there is a severe portamento that obfuscates the actual pitches of the notes themselves. I can't tell if the notes are actually identically the same because they sound so different.

2. The rap at the 10 second mark. This is clearly the ONLY thing that is practically identical. I won't even dispute that.

As for the rest of the songs, no similarities at all. I mean NONE.

So if this truly passes for a legitimate lawsuit, we are all f**ked.

I'm sorry, this is totally bogus and some well respected artists have pointed out clearly WHY it's bogus.

If there is any justice at all in this world, this will be overturned.

[Etienne1973]

Well. There is a questionable similarity. Because the note riff has the same function. It's a hook-line in both songs.

So either true plagiarism, coincidence or planned media stunt. I believe in the 3rd option.

[wagtunes]

Well. There is a questionable similarity. Because the note riff has the same function. It's a hook-line in both songs.

So either true plagiarism, coincidence or planned media stunt. I believe in the 3rd option.

How far are we defining plagiarism? Do I really have to start posting a shit load of songs that have similar riffs? We'll be here all f**king day and we'll have a list of 100 artists (minimum) who better go out shopping for lawyers.

Sorry, this lawsuit is a joke.

[SAW75]

Okay, I listened. The travesty of this lawsuit is even more apparent to me now than it was before because I REALLY listened.

So let's go over the offending sections/parts, whatever.

1. The riff itself. In Dark Horse, the riff is 8th notes as a run. In Joyful Noise, they sound like dotted 8th notes played staccato. So the rhythms are not the same. Musically, the notes in Dark Horse are played straight. In Joyful Noise, there is a severe portamento that obfuscates the actual pitches of the notes themselves. I can't tell if the notes are actually identically the same because they sound so different.

2. The rap at the 10 second mark. This is clearly the ONLY thing that is practically identical. I won't even dispute that.

As for the rest of the songs, no similarities at all. I mean NONE.

So if this truly passes for a legitimate lawsuit, we are all f**ked.

I'm sorry, this is totally bogus and some well respected artists have pointed out clearly WHY it's bogus.

If there is any justice at all in this world, this will be overturned.

You are going to hate what I am about to say and dismiss it... but this has a lot to do with your songwriting thread as well. You are stuck on traditional western music notation as songwriting. It isn't that anymore. There are elements of that but it is more about general sound design these days. You might want to consider this and loosen up with your own composition...This may require you to consider different ways of notating and adding that to your compositions. I am sorry if you are offended by this because there is nothing wrong with traditional writing but you may be missing the point on more modern styles. They also have virtue. That's the best way I can put it.

That being said... IMO the intent of the riff is exactly the same so I will agree with the jury. Too similar to be ignored within context. No one has to agree with that. And I don't have to repeat it...

And honestly, it truly weirds me out when I hear that identical vocal intro... I'd really like to know if this is something regularly said by rappers or something... because I can not explain that at all. Of course whyterabbit will shit all over me... but really, how can that be explained? This is the part that seems like a mock to me in a way, blatant. And I wonder about all the religious undertones of the case that was brought to trial. It's kinda fascinating to me.

Maybe others can shed light on the vocal intro.

[wagtunes]

I'm sitting here almost in tears over this travesty.

Anyway, for the love of God, if you do nothing else, PLEASE watch this video. It explains the travesty of this lawsuit better than I ever could.



The precedent that's been set is beyond dangerous. It just might destroy the music industry.

[SAW75]

I'm sitting here almost in tears over this travesty.

Anyway, for the love of God, if you do nothing else, PLEASE watch this video. It explains the travesty of this lawsuit better than I ever could.



The precedent that's been set is beyond dangerous. It just might destroy the music industry.

This is how we differ. That video is bullshit. Totally makes excuses and misses the point.

The video explains nothing.

[SAW75]

oops double post

[Forgotten]

The riff itself. In Dark Horse, the riff is 8th notes as a run. In Joyful Noise, they sound like dotted 8th notes played staccato. So the rhythms are not the same.

Dotted 8th notes (whether played staccato or not) would give it a compound meter, but I'm pretty sure both are in common time.

The feel of how they are played is different, but I don't think the meter is.

[Etienne1973]

That being said... IMO the intent of the riff is exactly the same so I will agree with the jury. Too similar to be ignored within context.

Agreed. I see it the same way. It's a hook-line (so similar) with the same function in both songs.