One Synth Challenge #126: Bazz::Murda by DistoCore (MrKarolus is the winner!)

[Auplant]

I've been saving the presets using the Bazz:Murda "save" button just next to the patch browser, just above the "bass" EQ control.

dB

oh, good choice. why do I do things the odd way..

[doctorbob]

Probably because the save button is sort of hidden away out of context - until you see it! The preset handling should be in a little pane of its own, rather than being lumped into the "also ran" bit of the synths interface.

Anyone managed to get anything near a metallic sound for the various cymbals which you might need?

dB

[] Peter:H []

[...]

Furthermore, the brass and strings in the back (or the synth pads in our world) reverberate a little longer than the rhythm section and melody upfront. And add a bit of coherent room verb on the section sends to make it feel like the instruments are actually *in* the same studio.

All good and universal principles!

Hm? If they are in the same room they reverberate exactly the same amount of time, right?
It's rather the levels and timings of 1.) direct source to 2.) E/R and 3.) Late/R.

Close source: 1.) first/loudest, 2.) with only some small delay, even different depending on pan position, 3.) with noticable delay and reverb builds up, intuition: the reverb reflections of the opposite walls add up later, because they need time to travel.

Far away source: 1.) 2.) and 3.) almost same time and all with some delay. In terms of level more "same level" of all three as with close sources. And the reverb does less "build up", it's immediately there...

If you do the maths then you will see that for the first early reflections there's only very minute difference in terms of delay, when you place a source and your ears in a moderate size room...this being said - what we do in mixing is kind of exaggerating things a bit...I mean: Delays...come on...who lives in a valey with large, plane mountain walls to the left and right which do delays in exactly 2/4 or 3/4 timing

I have added a picture which gives some intuition about how you can compute the distance that the very first early reflections have to travel from Source S to reach the ears of H. The lines denoted by a and b are following the rule incoming is outgoing angle. Addiional to the speed of sound there's many given things, like length and width of room and the x/y positions of S and H, the width of your head, i.e. distance of left and right ear ...all that stuff let's you as well compute the distance of the direct sound...as I said try to do the maths and try to simulate the left and right E/R in a moderate sized room...

[Dirtgrain]

Imagine the band in front of you - left, right, front, back, floor, roof.

How you do floor and roof? I've often seen diagrams, but I don't know what to tweak to do these two.

[schiing]

You're absolutely right, Peter. If they're in the same room it's the same amount of time.

I always put my "far away" ensemble sources in a separate hall tbh - and so I'm simultaneously confusing myself and my audience, I'm wrong AND I'm breaking my own analogy praising the brilliance of a "single-room-philosophy." All in the same breath. Oh well, I always said that consistency is overrated!

Thanks for clarifying my mud. As you say, mixing is exaggerating, almost to the point of make-believe, and in my mind I guess that my "ensemble hall" is immediately attached to and opening up behind my intimate "small-combo-studio."

I usually start off my projects looking up calculations for E/R, reverb time, delay, etc. in relation to BPM, project type and whatnot - and I like the idea of authenticity. But I must admit that what I finally end up with after a week of tweaking is a lot more intuitive/feel-based than it is accurate/math-based. Ultimately it's more on the level of "if it sounds good, it sounds good."

But, as I said, the *idea* of all the instruments in the same room is very helpful to me.

As for the floor/roof dimension, I'm (again!) no expert. But you can imagine the sound in a 2m*2m*10m chamber - a pretty hollow sound with strong early reflections, I think it's fair to say? Some reverbs, like the stock room reverb in Studio One, have a visual representation of the height, width and depth of the room, which can be helpful. Not entirely sure how you'd project the sensation of a trumpet blowing down at you from the top of a room like that, though!

[FrankH]

Anyone managed to get anything near a metallic sound for the various cymbals which you might need?

dB

Bob, I found the Low Q Noise1 Osc is good for cymbal sounds. This is what I'm working with at the moment:

[djex81]

Hello All. So this is going to be my first OSC. I just found out about this and thought I'd give it a go. So far it's actually quite enjoyable and a breath of fresh air being forced to use only one synth. Allows for a lot of creativity.

Any ways, for submissions does my SoundCloud artist name have to be the same as my account name here? Not sure if that's needed for verification purposes.

[TrojakEW]

Any ways, for submissions does my SoundCloud artist name have to be the same as my account name here? Not sure if that's needed for verification purposes.

No. You have to put your kvr name on track name Artist - Track Title where artist name is the same as KVR nick as it is written in rules https://sites.google.com/site/kvrosc/rules. It is something I'm always forget to do.

[basa333]

hi, sometimes I have a feeling, mixing method in OSC is more important as an creative track. I don't know... for me is a good band with average sound always better than an average band with super sound. maybe I'm wrong.

[TrojakEW]

Regarding pandoras box I openned - stage. You guys are bring some interesting information regarding this but it may be too technical for normal person in order to use.

First, most people from what I hear in tracks don't even use normal panning in mix. I'm not talking about modulating pan of audio source in order create stereo effect. But just about simple panning of instrument to left or right. So if you are one of those, it is good start to simply use this to spread instruments across x axis.

Next step to make it more better is:
We should always treat sound source as mono. In reality all sounds are mono. Even if the source is enseble we still should treat it as mono or rather said one source of signal to be able concentrate on overall position. Then we have interaural time difference - difference in arrival time of a sound between two ears. So putting delay on left or right channel based on sound position add to realism of object positioning. Then we have to take account distance of soundsource overall. So sound near us will reach the listener faster then sound source far away. So adding delay to this source again add more realism. Then we have air resistance that based on distance that can be simulated using simple highpass to cut some frequencies. The same goes for low frequencies. Larger the distance more you need to cut (kind of proximity effect) instead of adding more bass to close sound source, that can cause more inbalnace in mix.

Reverbation, reflection and early reflection can add more realism but it is more complex stuff. To make it simple in order to use is add more reverb to source that is far and less or none to the source close to listener.

Back to mono source. Most of users create stereo effect using different effects like hass, chorus and so on. This is imposible to position because creating pseudo stereo already simulate sound position in bad way. For example many synths have unison with unison stereo spread that spread voice across stereo field. This may sound nice for single sound since it have nice stereo image, but in mix it just collide with everything. It is like you are surounded with singers that sing directly to your ears from every angle and you will not be able to hear anything else. Modulating pan using lfo or even hfo is like trying to make pianist push and pull his piano across the stage at speed that is imposible to achieve in reality .

So yes even simple panning of mono source can help.

[TrojakEW]

hi, sometimes I have a feeling, mixing method in OSC is more important as an creative track. I don't know... for me is a good band with average sound always better than an average band with super sound. maybe I'm wrong.

Mixing is not more important but it is important. It is like to have basketball player with just one super strong leg that he uses as jump leg to make cool dunks. Yes he can jump super high because of that but what about other tasks? How can you run with such imbalanced legs? Sorry for metaphor but I like mataphors.

[basa333]

well, you can always found a metaphor to challenge my question, I can make it too. what I mean is the question, why there is in this treath a big discussion about the mixing and not about musically themes (f.e. choosed sounds, rhythms, chord progressions, tempos etc.). ok, you can say, this are comments within the tracks. I want no flames. It's ok. have a nice day.

[TrojakEW]

well, you can always found a metaphor to challenge my question, I can make it too. what I mean is the question, why there is in this treath a big discussion about the mixing and not about musically themes (f.e. choosed sounds, rhythms, chord progressions, tempos etc.). ok, you can say, this are comments within the tracks. I want no flames. It's ok. have a nice day.

I have not used metaphor to challenge your question. I just pointed why it is also important. This is one synth challenge. This is way to prove that it is not matter of synth how it is sounds but about operartor that use it. Whole KVR forum is full of question wich synth is best sounding synth? The answer is that it will sound as good as you can make it sounds good. This challenge is not just about music and composition but also about sound design and sound that support the theme and composiiton. Without proper sopund and mix you can't have expression and track will be "lifeless". There is no point to have only good music here because you can't pass this track to mix and mastering enginner but you have to do all this be yourself. This is the challenge.

[basa333]

ok, that's right.

[X4phantom]

Hello everybody,

I am also on board in this competition and I´m looking forward to share my track with you. I´m a german Hardcore-Techno producer from a big town in the "Ruhrgebiet". My track is an extraterrestrial (and fast) mixture of Industrial-Hardcore and Frenchcore with epic Hardtrance-Melodies.

Here are some specs in advance:

NOTE: My intention is to keep everything as pure as possible

DAW: Cubase Pro 10
Plugin: Bazz::Murda 1.7 PRO (ONLY)
Traces: tba
BPM: 228 (at the moment)
Length: 06:00 minutes (at the moment)
Effects (Cubase internal): EQ, Reverb, Compressor, Maximizer, Brickwall Limiter, eventual Magneto II and/or Quadrafuzz V2
Effects (external): none at the moment

If you are interested in a preview, feel free to contact me here.

Have a nice day

Best regards,
X4phantom