UVI Falcon - hybrid instrument - version 1.6 released - rumors inside!

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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EvilDragon
KVRAF
18595 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:08 pm

You first create a keygroup (Ctrl+N), then you can change the oscillator type by right-clicking its tab in Oscillators section.

Expecting all software to behave identically is a sure-fire way to end up disappointed (plus it's an impossible expectation). Falcon is extremely flexible and the UI is very logically laid out for things it can do. RTFM and watch Dan's videos. There's plenty of fun to be had.

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dionenoid
KVRist
391 posts since 3 Jan, 2019 from Holland

Re: UVI Falcon - hybrid instrument - version 1.6 released - rumors inside!

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:56 pm

ReboundAudio wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:29 pm
It is million lightyears away from a userfriendly workbase and it should really have a demoversion!!!
I would never have wasted one cent in this crap if i had the possibilty to test it before. I'm really sad and mad about that now. :(
You could have tested the (free) UVI Workstation first, as most people do.
More BPM please

Examigan
KVRAF
4908 posts since 15 Sep, 2005 from East Coast of the USA

Re: UVI Falcon - hybrid instrument - version 1.6 released - rumors inside!

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:41 pm

Reviews can also help. There are a few reviews/articles about Falcon in SoundBytes Magazine for instance.

machinesworking
KVRAF
1770 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Re: UVI Falcon - hybrid instrument - version 1.6 released - rumors inside!

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:31 pm

ReboundAudio wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:39 am
I'm more the sounddesign guy. But honestly.

I need a synth which is easy to handle and i can get to a quick result. I have no time to learn complicated ways, when there are easier ways to reach the goals. This one needs a study and i'm not really satisfited with the sound i hear to be honest. Sry. Not questionable because it's of course taste.
Yeah, you're not really a sound design guy then.
I'm probably going to get flack for this, but go buy Synplant, move a few "branches" hear a sound generated by the developers and feel 'creative'. That's obviously much more your style.

Falcon is in my top 5, I'm not completely in disagreement with you that's it's hard to get into, but I completely disagree with this modern perception that everything has to be easy to be good. In fact most things worth doing or using are not easy. Falcon is a workstation synth and sampler, it's meant to be complex and flexible, there's no easy way to present those things to you, if you need that, then look elsewhere.

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bmanic
KVRAF
8491 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo

Re: UVI Falcon - hybrid instrument - version 1.6 released - rumors inside!

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:26 pm

EvilDragon wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:08 pm
Falcon is extremely flexible and the UI is very logically laid out for things it can do.
Hmm.. I disagree. The UI could definitely be a lot better thought out and more clearly organized (mainly with highlights and colors).

However I do agree that a lot of fun can be had with it and it's almost infinitely flexible.

Same can be said for something like Melda MXXX and whatever that super synth in it is called. Another piece of quirky software that can be super flexible but isn't exactly intuitive. Falcon definitely falls into this category as well.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

machinesworking
KVRAF
1770 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Re: UVI Falcon - hybrid instrument - version 1.6 released - rumors inside!

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:12 pm

bmanic wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:26 pm
EvilDragon wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:08 pm
Falcon is extremely flexible and the UI is very logically laid out for things it can do.
Hmm.. I disagree. The UI could definitely be a lot better thought out and more clearly organized (mainly with highlights and colors).

However I do agree that a lot of fun can be had with it and it's almost infinitely flexible.

Same can be said for something like Melda MXXX and whatever that super synth in it is called. Another piece of quirky software that can be super flexible but isn't exactly intuitive. Falcon definitely falls into this category as well.
I'm trying to think of another super synth even that's a full blown sampler like Kontakt, and hits nearly every form of synthesis like Falcon does? maybe Omnisphere, but I don't think it's as flexible from what I can tell.
Most supremely powerful workstations require time and effort to learn, and there's a big difference between huge library, powerful engine etc. and access to that power.

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
18595 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: UVI Falcon - hybrid instrument - version 1.6 released - rumors inside!

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:38 pm

Falcon is quite intuitive IMHO, but you need to approach it as sampler since it's laid out like one (program -> layer -> keygroup -> oscillator).

I'm not sure about that GUI comment, things are super-clearly organized, multiple ways to access something (tree view, list view, then actual patch in the middle section, then focusing on just modulators or just effects with breadcrumb navigation...), different layers can have different colors for keygroups, right-clicking every control there's an Edit Modulations command that pops out a window with all modulators assigned to that parameter (or you can add modulators in here, from any level in the patch...)

It's not exactly rocket science to grok it.

machinesworking
KVRAF
1770 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Re: UVI Falcon - hybrid instrument - version 1.6 released - rumors inside!

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:00 pm

EvilDragon wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:38 pm
Falcon is quite intuitive IMHO, but you need to approach it as sampler since it's laid out like one (program -> layer -> keygroup -> oscillator).

I'm not sure about that GUI comment, things are super-clearly organized, multiple ways to access something (tree view, list view, then actual patch in the middle section, then focusing on just modulators or just effects with breadcrumb navigation...), different layers can have different colors for keygroups, right-clicking every control there's an Edit Modulations command that pops out a window with all modulators assigned to that parameter (or you can add modulators in here, from any level in the patch...)

It's not exactly rocket science to grok it.
I'm not exactly sure you're qualified to say what is hard for someone and what is easy? You're probably too smart for that. That's not a backhanded compliment, I mean it. People who grasp bigger picture workflow concepts quickly can sometimes be perplexed by those that cannot. ( In this sense this is my guess as to why so many great products by small developers have bad UX, because UX just isn't that important to people who can high level code.)

I slightly struggled with Falcon at first, I don't think it's workflow is horrible, but, it's not intuitive by any means. Examples of simpler synths or samplers for sure, but I had a much easier time with Zebra 2, Absynth, Kontakt, Cypher 2 etc. etc. and some people struggle with those interfaces.

Honestly the workflow was a step down intuitively from MachFive 3, (Falcons direct predecessor, which UVI developed with MOTU). It's more powerful therefor harder to grasp all at once for some of us. Definitely not as hard as our german friend there was making it out to be though.

Neon Breath
KVRAF
3368 posts since 15 Sep, 2010

Re: UVI Falcon - hybrid instrument - version 1.6 released - rumors inside!

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:20 pm

ReboundAudio wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:29 pm
Oh my gosh it's my misstake again! :hihi: (irony off)
It has nothing to do with the mindset. :dog:
Of course it's your mistake and your fault. YOU bought the software and nobody forced you, all that by knowing there was no demo to try it first. You didn't do your homework and didn't check the hundreds tutorials and videos online? Your fault, not UVI, not people here, no one else than you.
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maximoog
KVRist
133 posts since 22 Jan, 2007

Re: UVI Falcon - hybrid instrument - version 1.6 released - rumors inside!

Post Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:09 am

I wonder what's going to happen with Falcon. There haven't been any updates for a long time. Is UVI working on Falcon 2 or is Falcon dead?

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a.cla.dio
KVRist
194 posts since 9 Jun, 2005 from Turin, Italy

Re: UVI Falcon - hybrid instrument - version 1.6 released - rumors inside!

Post Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:19 am

maximoog wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:09 am
I wonder what's going to happen with Falcon. There haven't been any updates for a long time. Is UVI working on Falcon 2 or is Falcon dead?
falcon has been updated in march 2019. i definitely don’t think is dead

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bmanic
KVRAF
8491 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo

Re: UVI Falcon - hybrid instrument - version 1.6 released - rumors inside!

Post Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:26 am

machinesworking wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:12 pm
I'm trying to think of another super synth even that's a full blown sampler like Kontakt, and hits nearly every form of synthesis like Falcon does? maybe Omnisphere, but I don't think it's as flexible from what I can tell.
Most supremely powerful workstations require time and effort to learn, and there's a big difference between huge library, powerful engine etc. and access to that power.
Omnisphere is definitely nowhere near the complexity of Falcon nor the capability.

Just because something is powerful doesn't mean it can't be well thought out and intuitive. That's the whole point of good design.

The best example of something that was absolutely horrendous yet supremely capable and powerful is BLENDER. Only people without any capability of understanding good design and workflow thought it was brilliant, usually throwing out sentences like "Once you learn the keyboard shortcuts you can be super fast!".. as if that fixes bad UI design. Luckily there are some really smart and design focused people working with the code now so Blender 2.8 completely turned it all around and prioritized UI and workflow. It's even more ridiculously capable than ever before but the UI is much better.

Another example from the graphics world is GIMP. It's extremely capable yet supremely stupid in it's workflow and idiosyncrasies.

Falcon does NOT have good design in my opinion. It is capable yes, heck even the way things are shown is sort of logical and makes a bit of sense but it could all be much MUCH better. You could also make it a lot more accessible for inexperienced people without compromising anything for advanced user, right from the get-go, with various methods.


My point is: Just because something is complex and capable doesn't mean the user interface has to be too. Good design is as valid a skill and artform as anything else. It really DOES matter. Excusing bad design with ".. but but but it's complex and capable!" is futile.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

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bmanic
KVRAF
8491 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo

Re: UVI Falcon - hybrid instrument - version 1.6 released - rumors inside!

Post Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:31 am

EvilDragon wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:38 pm
It's not exactly rocket science to grok it.
Indeed it is not. It's also not exactly rocket science to understand that all of it could be presented much better visually and actually make the structure and intended workflow intuitive.

There are no real visual ques to separate Program from Layer from Keygroup from sample/oscillator. The only quick overview separator is the actual word itself and that tiny blue icon showing the nesting (which UVI is probably are super proud of and thinks solves the whole thing.. it doesn't).

For instance an extremely simple trick would be to slightly nest the layers within each other and use subtle color highlights for things to show what groups together with what.

Give this piece of software to a professional designer and they will immediately go :dog: . There are so many basic design things gone wrong. Obviously nobody REALLY sat down and thought about these things from a beginner/first time user perspective.

Those of us who have decades of experience with programming synths and making sampler programs on archaic hardware samplers with nested layers of pages on tiny little LCD screens with two rows have already prepared our minds for silly UI navigation. Thus many of us are blind to the silly missed possibilities where proper design might make things much more obvious.

I've become more aware of shortcomings to UI and design in general as I've helped my kids get into music making on the computer. You are forced to see things with a fresh new perspective. Unintuitive design is a thing that pops up quite quickly when working with a child due to their persistent questioning and the notoriously difficult question "Why?".
Last edited by bmanic on Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

enCiphered
KVRist
412 posts since 13 Dec, 2016

Re: UVI Falcon - hybrid instrument - version 1.6 released - rumors inside!

Post Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:36 am

bmanic wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:26 am
machinesworking wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:12 pm
I'm trying to think of another super synth even that's a full blown sampler like Kontakt, and hits nearly every form of synthesis like Falcon does? maybe Omnisphere, but I don't think it's as flexible from what I can tell.
Most supremely powerful workstations require time and effort to learn, and there's a big difference between huge library, powerful engine etc. and access to that power.
Omnisphere is definitely nowhere near the complexity of Falcon nor the capability.

Just because something is powerful doesn't mean it can't be well thought out and intuitive. That's the whole point of good design.

The best example of something that was absolutely horrendous yet supremely capable and powerful is BLENDER. Only people without any capability of understanding good design and workflow thought it was brilliant, usually throwing out sentences like "Once you learn the keyboard shortcuts you can be super fast!".. as if that fixes bad UI design. Luckily there are some really smart and design focused people working with the code now so Blender 2.8 completely turned it all around and prioritized UI and workflow. It's even more ridiculously capable than ever before but the UI is much better.

Another example from the graphics world is GIMP. It's extremely capable yet supremely stupid in it's workflow and idiosyncrasies.

Falcon does NOT have good design in my opinion. It is capable yes, heck even the way things are shown is sort of logical and makes a bit of sense but it could all be much MUCH better. You could also make it a lot more accessible for inexperienced people without compromising anything for advanced user, right from the get-go, with various methods.


My point is: Just because something is complex and capable doesn't mean the user interface has to be too. Good design is as valid a skill and artform as anything else. It really DOES matter. Excusing bad design with ".. but but but it's complex and capable!" is futile.
So true!
An even better example in that regard are the Valhalla plugins.

User avatar
ReboundAudio
KVRist
81 posts since 20 Jan, 2019 from Germany

Re: UVI Falcon - hybrid instrument - version 1.6 released - rumors inside!

Post Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:06 am

machinesworking wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:31 pm
Yeah, you're not really a sound design guy then.
Interesting statement. You won the internets today. (not)
I'm not a sounddesigner because i think a software is stupid sorted to complicated to have joy with it.
You surely think, that everyone who not use photoshop is not a designer eh? :clap:
However.. The intelligence here is to deep to continue a convesation with you. You are disqualified.
You didn't do your homework and didn't check the hundreds tutorials and videos online?
When i buy a car, i use the key and start with what i learned. Do i need to learn how an airplane works?

UVI has another big misstake. They provide the site in my motherlanguage but all the tutorials and
User Guide's arent. In my country, that's what you call a fraudulent intent.

However. You are right. We don't need to discuss about taste. And please lets stop it here. I just was mad about the fact that there's no demoversion!

Regards.
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