What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
User avatar
vurt
addled muppet weed
50441 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:08 am

Forgotten wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:06 am
vurt wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:04 am
skid marks wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:01 am
Trancit wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:49 am
There you were a nice boy and have collected all the rumors and prejudices floating around the web!! :clap: :tu:
I like especially the part about the "real musicians and engineers"... :hihi: :dog:
Please provide us with that long list of musicians that play real instruments, like piano and guitar that are currently using Fruityloops to track their music? We'll wait.

Also please provide that long list of top level engineers that mix all of the billboard hits that use Fruityloops to mix and master? We'll wait.

Now provide us the long list of loop and stem based remixers that use Fruitloops? Shouldn't take long.
elton john for one!
And Bing Crosby I believe
wasnt that cher?

User avatar
Forgotten
KVRAF
3406 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:13 am

vurt wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:08 am
Forgotten wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:06 am
vurt wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:04 am
skid marks wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:01 am
Trancit wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:49 am
There you were a nice boy and have collected all the rumors and prejudices floating around the web!! :clap: :tu:
I like especially the part about the "real musicians and engineers"... :hihi: :dog:
Please provide us with that long list of musicians that play real instruments, like piano and guitar that are currently using Fruityloops to track their music? We'll wait.

Also please provide that long list of top level engineers that mix all of the billboard hits that use Fruityloops to mix and master? We'll wait.

Now provide us the long list of loop and stem based remixers that use Fruitloops? Shouldn't take long.
elton john for one!
And Bing Crosby I believe
wasnt that cher?
Oh, you're right. I always get the two of them confused.

User avatar
vurt
addled muppet weed
50441 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:14 am

easy mistake.
they both dated bono.

machinesworking
KVRAF
1770 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:22 am

I've never used Fruity Loops Studio so I can't comment directly on it, but it's safe to say that there are two variations on DAWs/Sequencers etc. that people use. It's not cut and dried, but these workstations either start off as linear MIDI and audio recording platforms or as pattern based sequencers. At this point as it's been stated enough already in this thread, there's a lot of overlap, but a quick run down would put Logic, DP, Pro Tools, Cubase, Sonar, Studio One etc. in the linear workstation category and Bitwig, FL, Live, MPC2 etc. in the pattern (or Clip/Loop), based category.

Observationally it' s easy to see, a simple pattern or part of a song can be created extremely quickly in the second category, but further down the line the first category has far more tools available to the user to finalize a song.

Again there is a lot of overlap these days, but it's still apparent when you start up Live for instance how quickly you can get a simple loop going VS any traditionally set up DAW, and conversely I personally hate mixing in DAWs like Live with its monochromatic mixer more than 16 tracks. Get to 40 tracks and Live feels like waking through mud with it's WYSIWYG GUI that really is not set up at all to deal with that.

Again, it's not like you're not going to get a song done in Live, Bitwig etc. but my observation is that finishing is not those DAWs strong points, it's the initial composing stage where their interfaces shine. Anecdotally that's backed up by noting that observation is made by people all the time, either stating Logic, DP, Cubase etc. never felt inspiring to them, they write more in Live, Bitwig etc. or stating they made a lot of loops in Bitwig, Live and went back to Logic, Cubase, DP etc. to get things done. On a personal level I start a good amount of songs in Live, then finish them in DP etc. If a song is 16 tracks or less, I will finish it in Live, but I miss a larger more complex DAWs mixing capabilities and UX when working with 16+.

skid marks
Banned
7 posts since 11 Aug, 2019

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:24 am

skid marks wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:34 am
There seems to be a lot of love for Fruityloops from the younger crowds that didn't start with a properly designed linear DAW. Fruityloops started as a midi sequencer, then later bolted on features and functions that tried to mimic a linear environment.

That's why people who draw and paint music, use lots of pre-made loops and remix stems tend to love it, and real musicians and engineers hate it. It's okay to get ideas down quickly as a scratch pad or sequence a quick sample based beat, but it falls short for everything else. Most professionals that use it for the beatmaking aspect tend to use other DAWs to record vocals, mix and master.

Now a days there's no need to buy and use more then one DAW, find the right workflow from the start.
Beatmakers and Remixers seem to love it. Musicians and Engineers seem to hate it's pattern, sample, loop and stem based workflow.

machinesworking
KVRAF
1770 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:01 am

skid marks wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:24 am
Beatmakers and Remixers seem to love it. Musicians and Engineers seem to hate it's pattern, sample, loop and stem based workflow.
I think you're mixing up the word 'prefer' with love and hate.

Also, the term musician used in this context is weird. I use Ableton Live, I play guitar as a first instrument, I can get by with keys etc. but I'm a pretty good guitar player. I never DJ'd, remixed or was interested in that at all. When FL Studio is stable on OSX I will take a look at it.

A tool is a tool, no one is getting extra "pro" points for using Cubase, Logic or Pro Tools because famous musicians use them, and I certainly would not be surprised to learn that some talented pro used FL or Live or...

The people outside of our little plug in bubble think that anyone using anything other than Pro Tools is an amateur. I read someone claiming they could hear the Logic "sound" on the drum tracks of some release. That's how stupid this argument can get.

User avatar
antic604
KVRAF
2772 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:57 am

machinesworking wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:01 am
I read someone claiming they could hear the Logic "sound" on the drum tracks of some release. That's how stupid this argument can get.
Perhaps they heard Logic's Drummer which is a virtual drummer, with it's own sounds and more importantly - patterns, that I imagine can be recognizable.
Bitwig 3 // Reason 10 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604
other stuff - Psytrance in Bitwig Studio tutorial

fedexnman
KVRAF
2539 posts since 4 Jan, 2005

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:05 am

I'm on Studio One 4.something .... I have other hosts but I seem to like s1v4 ... I don't plan on switching or upgrading . I have other priorities like get bass guitar setup and play better and sell some of my used gear and guitars , and after that build a new PC and get a new interface .

machinesworking
KVRAF
1770 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:33 pm

antic604 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:57 am
machinesworking wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:01 am
I read someone claiming they could hear the Logic "sound" on the drum tracks of some release. That's how stupid this argument can get.
Perhaps they heard Logic's Drummer which is a virtual drummer, with it's own sounds and more importantly - patterns, that I imagine can be recognizable.
Good guess, but they were saying the mix buss of Logic, that old chestnut of an argument. :bang:

reggie1979
KVRian
1448 posts since 26 Nov, 2018

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:47 pm

vurt wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:14 am
easy mistake.
they both dated bono.

:lol:

FDLMAO!

babysitter
Banned
5 posts since 23 Aug, 2019

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:28 pm

BONES wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:54 am
There is good different and bad different and FL is definitely bad different. OTOH, Orion also has a different workflow but anyone could work it out in 5 minutes flat because it is easy and intuitive. That's good different.
+1

I could never wrap my head around the eccentric and quirky workflow, plus all the tedious workarounds.

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JunSev
KVRian
645 posts since 14 Sep, 2017

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:34 pm

babysitter wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:28 pm
BONES wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:54 am
There is good different and bad different and FL is definitely bad different. OTOH, Orion also has a different workflow but anyone could work it out in 5 minutes flat because it is easy and intuitive. That's good different.
+1

I could never wrap my head around the eccentric and quirky workflow, plus all the tedious workarounds.
This is a pure example of someone with an agenda and manipulative. Bashing FL studio all time with multiple accounts in multiple threads were FL studio is mentioned, this has gone too far.

Who would be this individual?...

User avatar
Forgotten
KVRAF
3406 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:49 pm

Image

machinesworking
KVRAF
1770 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:52 pm

JunSev wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:34 pm
babysitter wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:28 pm
BONES wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:54 am
There is good different and bad different and FL is definitely bad different. OTOH, Orion also has a different workflow but anyone could work it out in 5 minutes flat because it is easy and intuitive. That's good different.
+1

I could never wrap my head around the eccentric and quirky workflow, plus all the tedious workarounds.
This is a pure example of someone with an agenda and manipulative. Bashing FL studio all time with multiple accounts in multiple threads were FL studio is mentioned, this has gone too far.

Who would be this individual?...
Yep super suspicious at the least. I don't get the hate some have for tools that other people love, that other people spent time developing etc.?? It's mental. I'm absolutely positive within a month I could use any DAW out there and get done at least 90% of what I do musically, we're talking about minor gripes, inconveniences and preference here, that's all.

babysitter
Banned
5 posts since 23 Aug, 2019

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:58 pm

reggie1979 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:30 pm
I actually agree. I've owned it since forever and I cannot get anything done with it. Great midi, but everything else feels turible. Kudos to them for continually trying to make it better, but I can't wrap my head around it :x
Be careful they might ban you for your opinion, they're a bunch of cry babies around here.

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