Reason 11 announced!!!

[chk071]

TBH, i almost don't know where to start with so many wrong assumptions... let's face it, both VST support, and offering Reason's rack as a VST for other hosts strongly hints at lack of sales, and a change of orientation after Verdane took over. Add Ernst Nathoorst Bös' retirement to the list (a strong opponent of VST support in VST, and someone who always propagated the advantages of RE's, i.e. someone who never wanted to open the closed Reason ecosystem), the lack of sequencer features of Reason compared to other hosts, and you definitely know what's going on.

Counterpoint: assuming there is a "lack of sales" just because 2 longstanding feature requests are added is pretty speculative. The fact of the matter is that capital investment firms usually don't "invest" unless they see a solid potential for growth. It's easily just as possible that at least VST support was planned before Verdane took a controlling share (hence, growth). It should also be noted that Ernst Nathorst-Böös still sits on the Board of Directors - and the new CEO reports to him (along with the other BOD members). I work for a BOD myself, and trust me - his "retirement" as CEO doesn't mean he no longer has a say in what happens.

I do agree that Reason Plugin is part of the growth plan (that's pretty obvious)! The real question is: where do they go from here? I'm excited to see what happens.

It's all asumptions from my side, of course. But... i really can't construe the signs in any other way. If things were running brilliantly, there would be absolute zero reason (pun intended ) to change anything.

However, i think this is great. Still planning to get Reason Intro 11 (not absolutely sure yet).

[EnochLight]

Bring it on. I think this is great move if we can get stability... that will be the challenge.

All I can say is that Reason alone (read stock devices) and just RE's is still rock solid, so I've got pretty high hopes Reason Plugin will remain that way.

[0degree]

Finally, I’m so happy to see Reason devices in my current DAW! Long awaited for non Reason owners. Probably not so exciting update for Reason core users

[RikkShow]

It's all asumptions from my side, of course. But... i really can't construe the signs in any other way. If things were running brilliantly, there would be absolute zero reason (pun intended ) to change anything.

However, i think this is great. Still planning to get Reason Intro 11 (not absolutely sure yet).

Reason is a Swedish company, you don't have to assume anything, the profitability of a Swe corp is open info, you just have to look at it, simple really. No need for foolish speculation. Reasons profit is pretty healthy, both profit/HC and overall profit. End of story.

They still have to work hard and innovate to stay relevant, I believe there are too many DAWs out there for long term survival of them all. Once DAWs get close to maturity fewer and fewer will upgrade frequently (hence they may have go to subscription). Rack Extension development (by ext dev's) has slowed down - my guess is, they feel a need to attract established VST dev's to do REs again. Reason has a SDK that can make both RE and VST (Mac/Win) in one go, Loopmaster and Ujam already use it for their VSTs. Not a bad idea.

The RE environment is pretty rock solid crack free environment, and if you now can use REs as a VST in any host, this play may work. Nobody likes to work 2yrs on a VST only to see cracked version out there a few weeks after release. Reason tried with Europa VST, but it is now being pulled off the market.

They just need to make the Reason Rack Plugin low cost enough so lots of people jump in ($99 bucks might be too high), and they need to make sure they include all needed features, such is internal midi routing and midi out from the host as well as VST hosting inside the Reason Rack Plugin.

[starflakeprj]

It's all asumptions from my side, of course. But... i really can't construe the signs in any other way. If things were running brilliantly, there would be absolute zero reason (pun intended ) to change anything.

However, i think this is great. Still planning to get Reason Intro 11 (not absolutely sure yet).

Reason is a Swedish company, you don't have to assume anything, the profitability of a Swe corp is open info, you just have to look at it, simple really. No need for foolish speculation. Reasons profit is pretty healthy, both profit/HC and overall profit. End of story.

They still have to work hard and innovate to stay relevant, I believe there are too many DAWs out there for long term survival of them all. Once DAWs get close to maturity fewer and fewer will upgrade frequently (hence they may have go to subscription). Rack Extension development (by ext dev's) has slowed down - my guess is, they feel a need to attract established VST dev's to do REs again. Reason has a SDK that can make both RE and VST (Mac/Win) in one go, Loopmaster and Ujam already use it for their VSTs. Not a bad idea.

The RE environment is pretty rock solid crack free environment, and if you now can use REs as a VST in any host, this play may work. Nobody likes to work 2yrs on a VST only to see cracked version out there a few weeks after release. Reason tried with Europa VST, but it is now being pulled off the market.

They just need to make the Reason Rack Plugin low cost enough so lots of people jump in ($99 bucks might be too high), and they need to make sure they include all needed features, such is internal midi routing and midi out from the host as well as VST hosting inside the Reason Rack Plugin.

If you look at what you get for Reason Intro (where the Reason Rack is included), $99 isn't that much I would say...

Europa Shapeshifting Synthesizer
Thor Polysonic Synthesizer
Subtractor Synthesizer
ID-8 Songwriter’s Toolbox
Kong Drum Designer
Dr. Octo Rex Loop Player
Redrum Drum Computer
NN-XT Advanced Sampler
NN19 Sampler
Dual Arpeggio Player
Note Echo Player
Scales & Chords Player
...and some more

What would the cost be for these in the VST world?

[machinesworking]

They still have to work hard and innovate to stay relevant, I believe there are too many DAWs out there for long term survival of them all. Once DAWs get close to maturity fewer and fewer will upgrade frequently (hence they may have go to subscription).

My main DAW for years DP is from about 1984, it recently got Clips like Bitwig and Live, I'm still waiting around for MPE etc. As long as things evolve musically there will be updates and upgrades to write. Maturity is probably not ever going to happen with DAWs.

Subscription is a half thought out model IMO. Bitwig might be closest to getting it right. I think the reason for it isn't revenue stream based, it seems to me that updating a piece of software with one or two new features has always proven to be a better way to chase any bugs they introduce than waiting 2-4 years between upgrades and introducing dozens and dozens of new features with the possible dozens and dozens of bugs. It's smarter development wise, but it's hard to figure out how to convince people to sign up for. Personally I don't like subscription services, Bitwig's is decent, in that you own the software etc.

[machinesworking]

There are better solutions than Rewire. Open standard AVB or industry standard Dante. At least Dante can work within the same machine. And there is open source Jack and Soundflower as well... Though I have Dante installed I use my spdif in/out of my interface to route audio between apps, even less of a hassle...

I don't see how any of those are even close to better. Jack, never got it using MIDI, as far as I know it doesn't synch to the beat the timelines between the two DAWs. The others are pretty much for things that have nothing to do with writing a song in Reason etc. and wanting to use parts of another DAW, (say Live's time stretching), in sync with the song in Reason you have been working on. In fact looking at the new solution, which is Reason's plug ins as VST, there's nothing close to that that can be accomplished.

It's actually sort of shocking in a way, Propellerheads seem to pretty much be suggesting to someone like me who owns an older copy of Reason, that it would be best to just use the instruments, don't bother learning the DAW part because it's going to be difficult now that rewire is gone to sync to another DAW...

Once again, I'm super happy that Reason is getting a VST rack plug in, it's far better than Transfuser for REX files etc. and I'm certain to buy the upgrade, but I don't get dropping rewire? It's a weird decision to make when there isn't anything to replace it really. Rewire had its limitations, but syncing two DAWs timeline, audio funneling, and MIDI wise is a mess without it.
I don't know what it's like on Windows, but with OSX it's about three different applications you have to get up and running. AIC MIDI for MTC sync, MIDI funneling between the DAWs, Soundflower or Jack OS, or a paid solution if those two don't work on your system. It's a fudge-y mess.

[chk071]

Reason is a Swedish company, you don't have to assume anything, the profitability of a Swe corp is open info, you just have to look at it, simple really. No need for foolish speculation. Reasons profit is pretty healthy, both profit/HC and overall profit. End of story.

Define "healthy".

What is your explanation for that total change of direction that Reason is undergoing? It can only mean one thing: That they're going for more customers. With pretty severe measures. At least i can't see how people who buy Reason for the VST rack would switch to Reason's sequencer afterwards.

[EnochLight]

What is your explanation for that total change of direction that Reason is undergoing? It can only mean one thing: That they're going for more customers. With pretty severe measures. At least i can't see how people who buy Reason for the VST rack would switch to Reason's sequencer afterwards.

It's certainly to grow the number of users, that's for sure (whether they be older users who haven't upgraded in a long while or new users right out of the gate). I totally agree.

But one could argue adding VST-support in Reason proper back in 9.x was to satisfy the core Reason users that mostly just use Reason as their main DAW. Releasing Reason Plugin in 11 is technically the "first step" in this "total change in direction", by your metric. And since we all know that features are planned many many months in advance (on average 12-18 at least), the appearance of a new CEO just a few months ago who had nothing to do with version 11's course seems a stretch.

[machinesworking]

What is your explanation for that total change of direction that Reason is undergoing? It can only mean one thing: That they're going for more customers. With pretty severe measures. At least i can't see how people who buy Reason for the VST rack would switch to Reason's sequencer afterwards.

I'm mainly upgrading Reason for the VST Rack, but I'm also looking forward to seeing where Reason has gone in the last ten+ years. Gateway drug back to Reason is another possibility.

[RikkShow]

And since we all know that features are planned many many months in advance (on average 12-18 at least), the appearance of a new CEO just a few months ago who had nothing to do with version 11's course seems a stretch.

Verdane put a new guy in place recently but they came on board >2yr ago "Verdane will support the company’s expansion in several areas around the core product Reason, the app store-model Rack Extensions and the mobile music-making platform."

Let's face it, what is Steinberg selling to non-Cubase users, or what is Ableton selling to non-Ableton users? Not much i guess. Reason can sell to any DAW user, big market - they just need to make sure the feature set and value is right competing with the VST market. And yes, for a non Reason user the $99 bucks buys quite a lot.

[Greenstorm33]

IMO a rack VST plugin has been a no-brainer for Props at least since the creation of the RE format. I'm surprised it took them this long.

[Tronam]

IMO a rack VST plugin has been a no-brainer for Props at least since the creation of the RE format. I'm surprised it took them this long.

Especially for Reason 1-9 users I think it's a great deal if they've had any interest in the excellent new instruments Europa and Grain. They'll get both, along with all of Reason's past plugins for less than the cost of Europa alone. They'll also get Europa as a standalone plugin. It's a pretty shrewd way to attract old users without requiring them to commit to the full DAW if they've already migrated to something else.

[patchhunter]

I envisage between the release of reason 11 and reason 12 that point updates are going to have some feature requests implemented that reason only daw users will be happy about; and if those users don’t update until those point updates are released they will be very upset when 12 is released so close after. I can hear it now ( but I just updated 4 months ago and you’re releasing 12 now).

[WordClock]

can it make sense to you guys that the digital musician lifestyle will end some day when there are only touch screens akin to slatedigital consoles making music more like ipad toy machines? it's explained that certain styles require mending/tweaking/systematic editing that is the wrong thing in ways to aging people and people who don't like having to lean forward to access the gui on a touch screen.